Smash and grabs at MHJ

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#3082699 31-May-2023 11:39

elpenguino:

Handsomedan:

I was speaking with someone recently who works in the rehabilitation and care sector for offending youth.

They were saying that to take a young person and turn them around costs somewhere in the region of $750k per annum. For one kid.

They also said that not every kid is able to be rehabilitated and for the good of everyone in society, they should be locked away. And this was someone with a vested interest in trying to prevent the incarceration of young offenders.

That's an astonishing amount.

Yeah, I'd definitely be (citation needed) on that. For that sum you could have 4 full time highly trained professionals per kid, or maybe 3 and house/feed/clothe them full time. Something smells off.

jonb

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#3082709 31-May-2023 12:02

I'm a pretty left wing person and understand the socio-economic deprivation and all those good arguments, but still a large part of me wants to send them all on a two year holiday to Auckland Island, parents included.

Handsomedan

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#3082743 31-May-2023 12:47

mkissin:

Yeah, I'd definitely be (citation needed) on that. For that sum you could have 4 full time highly trained professionals per kid, or maybe 3 and house/feed/clothe them full time. Something smells off.

That's largely the business they're in - professionals around the clock, live-in 24hrs and paying for everything (Govt funded). They pay for clothes, food, accommodation, they are full-time carers and mentors, they train and rehabilitate the kids and contract professionals to help them in every way possible - it's quite an amazing business. And it's all centred on the kids.

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mkissin

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#3082746 31-May-2023 12:51

Handsomedan:

mkissin:

Yeah, I'd definitely be (citation needed) on that. For that sum you could have 4 full time highly trained professionals per kid, or maybe 3 and house/feed/clothe them full time. Something smells off.

That's largely the business they're in - professionals around the clock, live-in 24hrs and paying for everything (Govt funded). They pay for clothes, food, accommodation, they are full-time carers and mentors, they train and rehabilitate the kids and contract professionals to help them in every way possible - it's quite an amazing business. And it's all centred on the kids.

Sounds like what should be happening, to me. The issue in that case would appear to be scale and efficiency. I'd hope there would be long term followups and support too. I suspect a lot of recidivism from prison is that once someone gets out, their options are limited (for many reaons, some good, others) and there's limited or no continuing support.

networkn

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#3082773 31-May-2023 13:43

Handsomedan:

That's largely the business they're in - professionals around the clock, live-in 24hrs and paying for everything (Govt funded). They pay for clothes, food, accommodation, they are full-time carers and mentors, they train and rehabilitate the kids and contract professionals to help them in every way possible - it's quite an amazing business. And it's all centred on the kids.

I'm afraid I can't see how it's legitimately costing $750K per kid.

Someone is being paid well above the odds to provide this I'd suggest.

What is the success rate for this program, and what is the outcome?

Handsomedan

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#3082790 31-May-2023 14:32

networkn:

Handsomedan:

That's largely the business they're in - professionals around the clock, live-in 24hrs and paying for everything (Govt funded). They pay for clothes, food, accommodation, they are full-time carers and mentors, they train and rehabilitate the kids and contract professionals to help them in every way possible - it's quite an amazing business. And it's all centred on the kids.

I'm afraid I can't see how it's legitimately costing $750K per kid.

Someone is being paid well above the odds to provide this I'd suggest.

What is the success rate for this program, and what is the outcome?

No idea what the success rate is, but they certainly sell a good story, as they have quite a market for their services.

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networkn

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#3082800 31-May-2023 14:53

Handsomedan:

No idea what the success rate is, but they certainly sell a good story, as they have quite a market for their services.

Who is paying that 750K? Government I am guessing? I'd be interested to know what the total spend with this organization is.

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#3082854 31-May-2023 15:37

networkn:

I'm afraid I can't see how it's legitimately costing $750K per kid.

Neither can I, that's absolutely ridiculous. That's orders of magnitude more expensive than a prestigious private boarding school.

Handsomedan

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#3083139 1-Jun-2023 08:40

networkn:

Handsomedan:

No idea what the success rate is, but they certainly sell a good story, as they have quite a market for their services.

Who is paying that 750K? Government I am guessing? I'd be interested to know what the total spend with this organization is.

From what was said, it's all Govt money.

I can only go off what was said...I haven't inspected the books or anything.

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#3083140 1-Jun-2023 08:41

Paul1977:

networkn:

I'm afraid I can't see how it's legitimately costing $750K per kid.

Neither can I, that's absolutely ridiculous. That's orders of magnitude more expensive than a prestigious private boarding school.

Yes - I did a surprised Pikachu face when it was said. I asked them to repeat themselves as I was somewhat incredulous.

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Wombat1

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#3083152 1-Jun-2023 09:28

networkn:

Handsomedan:

No idea what the success rate is, but they certainly sell a good story, as they have quite a market for their services.

Who is paying that 750K? Government I am guessing? I'd be interested to know what the total spend with this organization is.

In other countries, we call this government corruption.

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MikeB4

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#3083160 1-Jun-2023 09:48

@Wombat1 To make that statement you must know the who, what where. You must also know the cost structures, staffing levels, funding sources and governance regimes. So please share with us.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

floydbloke

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#3083181 1-Jun-2023 10:32

Letters to the editor, The Post 01/06/23. Liz Falkner from Masterton has the answer for us 😉.

Sometimes I use big words I don't always fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.

Wombat1

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#3083194 1-Jun-2023 10:49

MikeB4:

@Wombat1 To make that statement you must know the who, what where. You must also know the cost structures, staffing levels, funding sources and governance regimes. So please share with us.

I'm still waiting for an answer from you about my question on the morality of dementia units in NZ. How do they differ from prisons where they too are keeping people against their will?

johno1234

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#3083200 1-Jun-2023 10:58

Apparently the NZ cost per annum of keeping a prisoner in jail is $150K. Expensive as that is, it sounds a lot cheaper than a year's worth of direct economic loss, apprehension cost, investigation cost and justice process cost per offence for recidivist offenders. Recidivist offenders should be in jail a) to protect the public b) because it is cheaper than dealing with their ongoing offending when not incarcerated and c) in prison they should be connected to rehabilitation and education.

Unfortunately item c) has completely fallen away in recent years

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/exclusive-expensive-failure-new-zealands-cost-per-prisoner-rises-while-jail-population-dwindles/PUIH52GXWSLRYXFWZAUM3L5SZU/

https://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-NZ/WQ_15336_2021/62a2f85b95a82632d4c47e05ace7ee17b8aadf5a

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