Changing of our flag , Yes or No.

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#1449835 13-Dec-2015 21:07

The current "new one" is my preferred of all the 1st referendum choices. However I will be voting against flag change due to the poor taste the whole referendum has left in my mouth.

Only 48% of eligible voters voted in that referendum, will be interested to see the turn out in the 2nd one.

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networkn

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#1449836 13-Dec-2015 21:07

michael001:
tdgeek:
michael001: The flag selected is exactly what one would expect from the process. I think it looks cheap, unprofessional and most embarrassingly, not a flag.

That aside, I look around my home office now and I see many items carrying an image of the New Zealand flag. Items that would require replacement should the flag change. I think a flag change, would cost me personally in excess of $500.

Looking towards business, the cost of the change alone will be measured in several development iterations - conservatively, that's about $60K. That's without changing a lick of printed material around the office.

So if I now consider just one item at a national level - the NZ drivers licence bears the NZ flag. What would be the actual cost to the taxpayer for change there?

Two things are absolutely certain for me:

I will be voting in the next flag vote.
I will be voting for no change.

I am hoping enough people feel the same way.

So your vote is based on money. ok. Drivers Licence. I doubt we will all have to renew. Next renewal we get the updated flag on it. Stationery. Re branding or changing the logo happens in business. In the case of the flag, I doubt there will be a "you must assimilate" now. If the go live date is say 1 Jan 2017, there is ample time to manage stationery stocks, run them down. More like 2018 or 2019.

Pity that a national piece of our country is reduced to dollars and cents

That is because it's not your dollars and cents, they are mine - sixty thousand of them. I would put it to you that if you had a little skin in the game you'd be thinking a little more pragmatically too.

The money part is only part of my concern, the flag option is nasty and cheap looking - it looks like a sporting logo. One that might last a couple of years before the next re-branding.

Expensive AND embarrassing.

I'll be incredibly surprised if it actually costs you $60k, but regardless, it will be a big stimulation for the economy, think what you are contributing to NZ :)

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#1449849 13-Dec-2015 21:33

networkn:

Not sure about you, but my flag needs to say a lot more than the symbol we use for ball games. Sport is a recreational activity not a nation defining one.

Heh you picked the wrong guy to have that conversation with since I am MAD about Rugby, and as far as I am concerned if we used the AB's logo for our flag, I'd sign it off immediately!

We're pretty good at cycling too ... I propose some logo thing with two round things on the sides and a longish bit in the middle.

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#1449853 13-Dec-2015 21:38

CruciasNZ: The current "new one" is my preferred of all the 1st referendum choices. However I will be voting against flag change due to the poor taste the whole referendum has left in my mouth.

Only 48% of eligible voters voted in that referendum, will be interested to see the turn out in the 2nd one.

Yep, but what is the turnout in general elections? You never get the vast majority voting, and thats for the Govt. I'd say 48% of eligibles is a good turnout?

But the reason to vote is to vote, but you will anti-vote because of the referendum process?

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#1449878 13-Dec-2015 21:56

joker97:
networkn:

Not sure about you, but my flag needs to say a lot more than the symbol we use for ball games. Sport is a recreational activity not a nation defining one.

Heh you picked the wrong guy to have that conversation with since I am MAD about Rugby, and as far as I am concerned if we used the AB's logo for our flag, I'd sign it off immediately!

We're pretty good at cycling too ... I propose some logo thing with two round things on the sides and a longish bit in the middle.

Maybe that logo won't pass the censor!

Seriously though, the silver fern is not a sports thing. Its a general Kiwi icon, second to the kiwi. With all the rugger lately, its been out there more thats all.

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#1449881 13-Dec-2015 21:59

joker97:
networkn:

Not sure about you, but my flag needs to say a lot more than the symbol we use for ball games. Sport is a recreational activity not a nation defining one.

Heh you picked the wrong guy to have that conversation with since I am MAD about Rugby, and as far as I am concerned if we used the AB's logo for our flag, I'd sign it off immediately!

We're pretty good at cycling too ... I propose some logo thing with two round things on the sides and a longish bit in the middle.

I'm sure we did something with rowing too, didn't we? How about a long thin boat with some sculls poking out?

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#1449883 13-Dec-2015 22:00

dclegg:
tdgeek:
I found Red Peak to be logo like. Simple, like a logo is. Doesnt really say much about what country it could be representing

It actually did. It contained nods to our beaches, mountains, status as one of the countries to see the sunrise first, & links to our Maori heritage. But this all required explaining, and I think this is one of the reasons it didn't fare well.

Another reason it didn't fare well was people didn't take the time to consider the study of vexillology, so they can understand what separates the good flags from the bad. To be fair, that should've been undertaken by the flag selection committee, and the fact that there were no vexillologists on the panel says a lot about how flawed the process was.

Didn't I read that it was already the logo for an engineering firm somewhere in the USA?

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#1449903 13-Dec-2015 22:29

http://peakengineeringdesign.com

NC, USA

Dratsab

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#1449904 13-Dec-2015 22:31

Geektastic: Didn't I read that it was already the logo for an engineering firm somewhere in the USA?

Similarities exist for logos used by a few different companies:
Peak Engineering and Design
Headhunt - Singapore Executive Job Search
Klafs Saunas
Wormald
Arrow Uniforms (at a stretch)

I have no doubt there'd be a number of others.

Edit: Nice work tdgeek slipping in while I was composing my reply :-)

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#1449924 13-Dec-2015 23:49

Dratsab:
Geektastic: Didn't I read that it was already the logo for an engineering firm somewhere in the USA?

Similarities exist for logos used by a few different companies:
Peak Engineering and Design
Headhunt - Singapore Executive Job Search
Klafs Saunas
Wormald
Arrow Uniforms (at a stretch)

I have no doubt there'd be a number of others.

Edit: Nice work tdgeek slipping in while I was composing my reply :-)

You could say that about most flags though, they look similar to something else. That is just one of the things when you go for a nice simple design. Japans, Frances, Italys etc, flag is very similar to many logos.

I didn't like red peak flag due to the fact that it emphasized the Red as the main colour, and it's name which put a lot of people off it. Variations of the colour and design I have seen where better. That was the whole problem with the process the NZ Government used, it didn't allow for refinement. The current flag has been refined, and is far better design wise, than the one picked to go against it. So I won't be voting for a change. If they had picked a black flag with a refined silver fern logo, I may have chosen that as a valid replacement.

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#1449975 14-Dec-2015 03:44

Geektastic:Not sure about you, but my flag needs to say a lot more than the symbol we use for ball games. Sport is a recreational activity not a nation defining one.

Tell that to the Aussie's and they might take you behind the woodshed for some nation defining education.

We lived in Aussie for 30 years, got there 2 months after Bob Hawke became PM in the early 80's and returned last year, Believe you me the Aussie's are just as bad as the Yanks at waving their flag in your face for ANY reason. We have travelled fairly extensively and the Aussie flag is recognised way more so than our Kiwi one which gets mixed up with the Aussie a hell of a lot of times.

We are voting for change for that main reason, to differentiate between us and the Aussie in a definitive and unmistakable way.

The Silver Fern (Black, White and Blue) is/was our vote.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

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#1449993 14-Dec-2015 08:36

mattwnz:
Dratsab:
Geektastic: Didn't I read that it was already the logo for an engineering firm somewhere in the USA?

Similarities exist for logos used by a few different companies:
Peak Engineering and Design
Headhunt - Singapore Executive Job Search
Klafs Saunas
Wormald
Arrow Uniforms (at a stretch)

I have no doubt there'd be a number of others.

Edit: Nice work tdgeek slipping in while I was composing my reply :-)

You could say that about most flags though, they look similar to something else. That is just one of the things when you go for a nice simple design. Japans, Frances, Italys etc, flag is very similar to many logos.

I didn't like red peak flag due to the fact that it emphasized the Red as the main colour, and it's name which put a lot of people off it. Variations of the colour and design I have seen where better. That was the whole problem with the process the NZ Government used, it didn't allow for refinement. The current flag has been refined, and is far better design wise, than the one picked to go against it. So I won't be voting for a change. If they had picked a black flag with a refined silver fern logo, I may have chosen that as a valid replacement.

I agree - the process for selecting the replacement option was way too simplistic and like an internet popularity contest really. I feel we are doing something no one especially thought was necessary, for the wrong reasons and using a poor methodology.

No change here.

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#1450002 14-Dec-2015 09:01

One positive, Red Peak can still live on as a second alternative flag irrespective of whether the corporate logo makes it through the next referendum or not.

MikeB4

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#1450004 14-Dec-2015 09:11

I read some comments on media sites that the proposal to consider changing the flag is anti democratic. Hmmmmm public submissions for the designs then two referendums to decide are undemocratic????
A lot of the commentary etc around this whole thing has saddened me greatly. I weep for our future sometimes.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1450006 14-Dec-2015 09:14

I predict an overwhelming (and embarrassing for the government) landslide to keep the current flag.

- The 10% of voters who cast invalid votes as a protest will all vote against change.
- Red Peak supporters (which was still easily the 3rd most popular) will vote for no change.
- Anyone that didn't vote in the first referendum who choose to vote in the second will be voting for no change.

"No change" will win by at least a 2:1 margin.

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