Climate Change Thread

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#3124454 7-Sep-2023 09:34

SaltyNZ:

And National/Act's policies will slam the accelerator to the floor. Remove the EV incentive, restart fossil fuel exploration and new extraction, allow agriculture to pollute even more ... Sheer insanity.

Also, National's plan to install 10,000 EV chargers by 2030 ... did they pull that number out of their arses? As of 2019 there were, apparently, about 1300 petrol stations across New Zealand. If you assume it takes 10x longer to charge an EV than fuel a car, then 10,000 chargers seems reasonable ... except, modern EVs hardly ever need to be publicly charged when you can charge at home. Sure, there are always queues at free DC chargers - but that's because they're free, not because the owners need to be there.

Needs to be a lot more nuance to that policy. But I suspect the headline figure of <deep echoing voice>TEN THOUSAND CHARGERS</deep echoing voice> is all there is, with nothing behind it.

With respect to the chargers, have national actually considered the impact of power supply to the chargers and the network utilities required to drive such installations; new dedicated power circuits will need to be installed and most likely won't be paid for by the National Government... agree with the top line as well.. Sadly the NZers (apart from my colleagues in transport engineering and science) I meet generally consider climate change to just be the 'weather being weather' and dismiss it as a problem.

wellygary

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#3124458 7-Sep-2023 09:53

geoffwnz:

SaltyNZ:

And National/Act's policies will slam the accelerator to the floor. Remove the EV incentive, restart fossil fuel exploration and new extraction, allow agriculture to pollute even more ... Sheer insanity.

Also, National's plan to install 10,000 EV chargers by 2030 ... did they pull that number out of their arses? As of 2019 there were, apparently, about 1300 petrol stations across New Zealand. If you assume it takes 10x longer to charge an EV than fuel a car, then 10,000 chargers seems reasonable ... except, modern EVs hardly ever need to be publicly charged when you can charge at home. Sure, there are always queues at free DC chargers - but that's because they're free, not because the owners need to be there.

Needs to be a lot more nuance to that policy. But I suspect the headline figure of <deep echoing voice>TEN THOUSAND CHARGERS</deep echoing voice> is all there is, with nothing behind it.

Reminds me of.......

"ONE MILLION DOLLARS"

Or "One Billion Trees".... politicians do what politicians do

Geektastic

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#3124727 7-Sep-2023 17:35

Not to forget 100,000 houses…!

tdgeek

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#3124741 7-Sep-2023 18:55

Geektastic: Not to forget 100,000 houses…!

Completely true. But there may be TWO PGF (Provisionsual Growth Funds) coming to you soon. NZF and ACT

Tinkerisk

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#3124798 7-Sep-2023 20:16

MikeB4:

Geektastic:

Name one human being who doesn’t!

Currently no "modern" Homo Sapiens have become extinct. Neanderthals went extinct circa 40,000 years ago.

The last time I was in that area I had the feeling that there were still some walking around.

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#3124800 7-Sep-2023 20:22

kingdragonfly: I think they're taking the "dirty hippy" slang to literally :)

Consequently, the first famous bands have started to think about whether mass events with tens of thousands of visitors are still in keeping with the times in terms of climate compatibility.

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cddt

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#3124803 7-Sep-2023 20:26

SaltyNZ:

... except, modern EVs hardly ever need to be publicly charged when you can charge at home.

Except for the fact that not everyone has off-street parking, let alone an internal garage. At least in Auckland, a lot of the garages which do exist have been converted to additional bedrooms or sleep-outs.

I've already seen a couple of people run cables across the footpath (black cable + shadows + night time = trip hazard). If that becomes common it'll be considered a nuisance and hopefully banned.

tdgeek

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#3124874 8-Sep-2023 06:58

cddt:

Except for the fact that not everyone has off-street parking, let alone an internal garage. At least in Auckland, a lot of the garages which do exist have been converted to additional bedrooms or sleep-outs.

I've already seen a couple of people run cables across the footpath (black cable + shadows + night time = trip hazard). If that becomes common it'll be considered a nuisance and hopefully banned.

I see that as a fringe case. If you can afford an EV you can afford a Sparky to add an outdoor charging point. Even a standard outlet will allow 12+ hours "end of day to off to work" charging time.

Apartments? The Body Corp should provide charging points, somehow making them secure should said parking be public facing.

cddt

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#3124926 8-Sep-2023 09:31

tdgeek:

I see that as a fringe case. If you can afford an EV you can afford a Sparky to add an outdoor charging point. Even a standard outlet will allow 12+ hours "end of day to off to work" charging time.

Apartments? The Body Corp should provide charging points, somehow making them secure should said parking be public facing.

A couple of points.

I don't believe it's possible to install a charging point on the berm. It's not about cost, it's just not permitted.

The regulations requiring apartments to provide carparks were removed more than two decades ago.

These days a lot of houses are home to multiple adults. Not just intergenerational living, but also flats. It's pretty common for a three bedroom house to have six adults with six cars.

If your house was built between the 1950s and 1990s it probably has off-street parking. But if it's older or newer, off-street parking where you could install a charger or even access a standard outlet isn't guaranteed.

Rikkitic

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#3124944 8-Sep-2023 10:49

cddt:

tdgeek:

I see that as a fringe case. If you can afford an EV you can afford a Sparky to add an outdoor charging point. Even a standard outlet will allow 12+ hours "end of day to off to work" charging time.

Apartments? The Body Corp should provide charging points, somehow making them secure should said parking be public facing.

A couple of points.

I don't believe it's possible to install a charging point on the berm. It's not about cost, it's just not permitted.

The regulations requiring apartments to provide carparks were removed more than two decades ago.

These days a lot of houses are home to multiple adults. Not just intergenerational living, but also flats. It's pretty common for a three bedroom house to have six adults with six cars.

If your house was built between the 1950s and 1990s it probably has off-street parking. But if it's older or newer, off-street parking where you could install a charger or even access a standard outlet isn't guaranteed.

All this means is that things will have to change. There aren't many places in the city to park a horse anymore, either.

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mkissin

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#3124950 8-Sep-2023 11:20

cddt:

These days a lot of houses are home to multiple adults. Not just intergenerational living, but also flats. It's pretty common for a three bedroom house to have six adults with six cars.

This was used recently to help sink a proposed cycle lane on a main road near me.

A couple houses (which did actually have generally reasonable off-street parking) had occupants which between them had 5-6 cars and so parked permanently on the side of the street.

I'm sympathetic to their plight, but also this just absolutely doesn't scale. Do we need to publicly provide that much parking for every house? I'm not sure what the solution is (there are several, of course, all unpopular) but we lost a piece of useful public infrastructure because of a few private vehicles.

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cddt

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#3124956 8-Sep-2023 11:37

Rikkitic:

cddt:

...

All this means is that things will have to change. There aren't many places in the city to park a horse anymore, either.

Oh I agree completely. Just pointing out some barriers to entry for EV ownership which will need to be solved (e.g. councils allowing the installation of charging points on berms) if uptake is to become near-universal.

cddt

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#3124957 8-Sep-2023 11:39

mkissin:

cddt:

These days a lot of houses are home to multiple adults. Not just intergenerational living, but also flats. It's pretty common for a three bedroom house to have six adults with six cars.

This was used recently to help sink a proposed cycle lane on a main road near me.

A couple houses (which did actually have generally reasonable off-street parking) had occupants which between them had 5-6 cars and so parked permanently on the side of the street.

I'm sympathetic to their plight, but also this just absolutely doesn't scale. Do we need to publicly provide that much parking for every house? I'm not sure what the solution is (there are several, of course, all unpopular) but we lost a piece of useful public infrastructure because of a few private vehicles.

That's unfortunate, and it seems to be the wrong way around. Because when every adult in a household requires their own private vehicle, it's a symptom of a lack of viable alternatives, such as cycle lanes.

Dratsab

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#3124967 8-Sep-2023 12:44

cddt: That's unfortunate, and it seems to be the wrong way around. Because when every adult in a household requires their own private vehicle, it's a symptom of a lack of viable alternatives, such as cycle lanes.

Or functional/useful public transport.

johno1234

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#3124969 8-Sep-2023 12:50

Benoire:

SaltyNZ:

And National/Act's policies will slam the accelerator to the floor. Remove the EV incentive, restart fossil fuel exploration and new extraction, allow agriculture to pollute even more ... Sheer insanity.

Also, National's plan to install 10,000 EV chargers by 2030 ... did they pull that number out of their arses? As of 2019 there were, apparently, about 1300 petrol stations across New Zealand. If you assume it takes 10x longer to charge an EV than fuel a car, then 10,000 chargers seems reasonable ... except, modern EVs hardly ever need to be publicly charged when you can charge at home. Sure, there are always queues at free DC chargers - but that's because they're free, not because the owners need to be there.

Needs to be a lot more nuance to that policy. But I suspect the headline figure of <deep echoing voice>TEN THOUSAND CHARGERS</deep echoing voice> is all there is, with nothing behind it.

With respect to the chargers, have national actually considered the impact of power supply to the chargers and the network utilities required to drive such installations; new dedicated power circuits will need to be installed and most likely won't be paid for by the National Government... agree with the top line as well.. Sadly the NZers (apart from my colleagues in transport engineering and science) I meet generally consider climate change to just be the 'weather being weather' and dismiss it as a problem.

10,000 22KW chargers is not that big is it? If hey can create a 5000 home subdivision like Paerata Rise that is concentrated in one place then you'd think they could spread out10,000 chargers over the whole country. If we can't support this then there's no hope of home fast charging ever becoming common place.

22KW chargers only use 22KW when charging a warm, empty battery. Once it starts filling they slow down so by no means would they ever all be flat out at once.

If we can rollout nationwide fibre broadband then 10,000 fast chargers should be a piece of cake.

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