PSA: Protest Action blocking roads in Wellington may start again from Monday 28th August

Forums › Off topic › PSA: Protest Action blocking roads in Wellington may start again from Monday 28th August

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alasta

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#3122604 1-Sep-2023 11:19

SaltyNZ: But it's also not at all relevant to the issue here because the rail protestors are not doing anything like that. They're sitting in the road and hanging up banners. They may even be singing kumbaya for all I know.

Get back to me when they become white supremacists brandishing AR-15s and committing lethal assault.

Is this an admission that cults and extremist ideologies can escalate into extreme violence? Better deal with them swiftly before it gets to that point then.

johno1234

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#3122605 1-Sep-2023 11:22

MikeB4:

Wombat1:

They have done it in NSW.

Labor helps pass NSW bill targeting road-blocking protesters despite union opposition | New South Wales politics | The Guardian

If you cannot question or hold your government to account you do not have a democracy

There seems to be a very blurry line here. You and others seem to be suggesting that it is OK to break laws to protest because the cause is just and the degree of lawbreaking is within reasonable bounds. Who is to judge what is just and reasonable and who gave them this privilege? What degree of law breaking is allowed under this concept of justified law breaking? If it is OK to block a road illegally then is it OK to damage property? Is it OK to kill an oil worker? There will be activists out there who believe in all of the above. Who decides at which point an illegal activity is justified?

No. I don't accept someone sitting at their computer deciding these things arbitrarily based on their personal value settings. I expect the people via their elected representatives to set laws and the authorities to enforce them. This requires penalties for law breaking. If the law is an ass then it is up to the political process to fix it. If people cross the line when protesting then they must be prepared to suffer the consequences of the rule of law.

rb99

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#3122606 1-Sep-2023 11:22

Sounds not unreasonable ifs its a small punishment for a small infringement.

But its also, not least, when people protest on the pavement, and it inconviences people, and they make that illegal. And when they protest in a park, and it....And when they protest outside parliament, and it...

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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SaltyNZ

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#3122607 1-Sep-2023 11:25

Wombat1:

Do they have the right to riot?

But it's also not at all relevant to the issue here because the rail protestors are not doing anything like that. They're sitting in the road and hanging up banners. They may even be singing kumbaya for all I know.

Get back to me when they become white supremacists brandishing AR-15s and committing lethal assault.

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Gurezaemon

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#3122608 1-Sep-2023 11:25

Wombat1:

alasta:

So now anyone can break the law by dressing it up as a protest?

I guess the US capitol protestors had the right to protest and cause disruption too? Same argument as freedom fighter / terrorist.

Law is the law. its there for a reason. Illegal protesting should not be tolerated, go soft on it and things will get far worse as somebody said previously.

Most of us seem to look at Russia with horror that even peaceful protest against the war is illegal there.

Just because something is illegal does not automatically make it morally wrong.

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floydbloke

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#3122613 1-Sep-2023 11:28

The rule of "don't be a dick'' applies to protesting just like it does to everything else in life.

An organised march, informing the authorities of the time and place then standing on the lawn outside parliament for an hour or so challenging politicians is not being dick.

Camping on said lawn, trashing and vandalising the place, illegally parking, blocking roads and intimidating the public going about their business for weeks on end is being a dick.

Blocking and glueing yourself to a major arterial road is being a dick, throwing around orange powder disrupting a large scale sports events is being a dick.

Don't be a dick!

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rb99

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#3122614 1-Sep-2023 11:29

'I expect the people via their elected representatives to set laws and the authorities to enforce them.'

I'm fairly sure a certain bunch of National Socialists in Germany were elected. They didn't have any trouble setting laws and enforcing them.

I'm not suggesting you in anyway support anything to do with them, just though I'd mention it.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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johno1234

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#3122615 1-Sep-2023 11:30

MikeB4:

Wombat1:

They not 'legally' protesting. They causing a nuisance.

Dame Whina Cooper marched the length of Te Ika-a-Maui (North Island) on state highway one would you describe this action the same?

Is there any law against Dame Whina walking the length of the island? No. Did she sit down at and intersection and glue herself to the road? No. Did she intentionally seek to prevent anyone from their right to freedom of movement? No.

Your constant reversion to straw-men is weak argument.

SaltyNZ

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#3122616 1-Sep-2023 11:30

Careful @rb99 - there is one rule on GZ which is guaranteed to get the ban hammer, and you're pretty close there.

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rb99

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#3122617 1-Sep-2023 11:33

Sorry, I tried to be polite and not to point at anyone here (or to imply it).

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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johno1234

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#3122620 1-Sep-2023 11:34

rb99:

'I expect the people via their elected representatives to set laws and the authorities to enforce them.'

I'm fairly sure a certain bunch of National Socialists in Germany were elected. They didn't have any trouble setting laws and enforcing them.

I'm not suggesting you in anyway support anything to do with them, just though I'd mention it.

And finally someone descends below the strawman level and enters the Godwin's Law basement.

By the way, Hitler formed a dictatorship, under which he eliminated opposition and perpetrated the holocaust and other crimes. Equating this to democracy is ... I'm not even going to comment further.

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MikeB4

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#3122622 1-Sep-2023 11:36

johno1234:

Is there any law against Dame Whina walking the length of the island? No. Did she sit down at and intersection and glue herself to the road? No. Did she intentionally seek to prevent anyone from their right to freedom of movement? No.

Your constant reversion to straw-men is weak argument.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

rb99

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#3122624 1-Sep-2023 11:37

Again. Apologies. I meant no offense.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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