Climate Change Thread

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#3125803 11-Sep-2023 08:52

cddt:

Oh I agree completely. Just pointing out some barriers to entry for EV ownership which will need to be solved (e.g. councils allowing the installation of charging points on berms) if uptake is to become near-universal.

Seems to me that we have power & power poles on every street... add 2 or 4 or even 6 charging points to each power pole and you have half of the street covered. If the problem is cords across the footpath, cut a channel in the footpath for the cord. Or, better yet allow people to bury their own cables from their homes to outlets on the berm.

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#3126181 11-Sep-2023 19:09

frankv: It's 10,000 chargers, not 10,000 charging stations. The 1,300 petrol stations average (WAG, 8? pumps per station) = 10,400 pumps. If you also assume 90% of charging is done at home, but it takes 10x longer to charge, then 10,000 chargers would be about right.

One station I visit (for petrol etc) has an inside cafe usually well stocked at all hours and maybe a Subway. It's a pleasant place to check mail and catch up. I can imagine that format working well for electric vehicle charging.

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#3126202 11-Sep-2023 20:23

gzt: It's a pleasant place to check mail and catch up. I can imagine that format working well for electric vehicle charging.

Shell has been experimenting with that in Europe.

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#3126212 11-Sep-2023 21:06

I see another part of the enterprise does on street lamppost and bollard charging

https://ubitricity.com/en/

7000 points in the UK. Not a huge number really.

tdgeek

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#3126307 12-Sep-2023 07:11

gzt: I see another part of the enterprise does on street lamppost and bollard charging

https://ubitricity.com/en/

7000 points in the UK. Not a huge number really.

Where can lampposts fit in, in NZ?

Cons. Far-ish apart, but if a car can use a 3 to 4m extension cord, why not?

Pros. Power is already there, the inground electricity infrastructure has already been laid, lets use it

While Councils turn them on at night, they could have 3 or 4 plugs attached, and wiring altered so that they are powered 24/7, but the lighting continues to be activated only at night.

Seems too easy, whats the catch for NZ?

johno1234

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#3126365 12-Sep-2023 08:09

tdgeek:

gzt: I see another part of the enterprise does on street lamppost and bollard charging

https://ubitricity.com/en/

7000 points in the UK. Not a huge number really.

Where can lampposts fit in, in NZ?

Cons. Far-ish apart, but if a car can use a 3 to 4m extension cord, why not?

Pros. Power is already there, the inground electricity infrastructure has already been laid, lets use it

While Councils turn them on at night, they could have 3 or 4 plugs attached, and wiring altered so that they are powered 24/7, but the lighting continues to be activated only at night.

Seems too easy, whats the catch for NZ?

Street lights are low power devices with lightweight wiring and power distribution so you'd have to start again from scratch if you want them to deliver car charging power.

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#3126574 12-Sep-2023 16:14

Even if we were to reduce emissions to 0%, there would only be a visible climate change effect in 200 years (which does not mean giving up and not trying). For me, "grandiose announcements" - by whomever - have primarily become irrelevant and I focus on simply implementing or avoiding things I have direct influence on.

It is difficult enough to assess the overall effect correctly, because what use is a supposedly "clean" technology to me if "dirty" production methods in another part of the world make the milkmaid calculation absurd or the production of this technology devours more energy than its use can ever save?

The greatest, easily assessable savings potential is avoidance and renunciation, and here we come to a personal, individual area that one either implements or not - whereby I (almost) don't care at all whether my neighbour, colleague or anyone else also does it or has 1000 reasons not to do it. I just do it for me (us) and that's it.

edit: By the way, I am preparing myself to avoid the inevitable direct effects - because we were already warned 25 years ago that the catastrophes already taking place will increase. In simple Darwinian terms: adapt or die! And no ideology, no politician, no religion and no advertising slogans are needed for this. Kind of „finchy“.

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#3126577 12-Sep-2023 16:29

Tinkerisk:

Even if we were to reduce emissions to 0%, there would only be a visible climate change effect in 200 years

Citation needed.

Every wee tiny bit of CO2 (and other greenhouse gasses) avoided means less energy in the Earth system, which means less impact. It's the change in trajectory that is important. It might be bad currently, but it can always be worse.

Tinkerisk

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#3126578 12-Sep-2023 16:35

mkissin:

Tinkerisk:

Even if we were to reduce emissions to 0%, there would only be a visible climate change effect in 200 years

Citation needed.

That's exactly what I mean. You want "proof". I'm not going to launch an energy-guzzling search query to make YOU comfortable.

cddt

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#3126579 12-Sep-2023 16:37

Tinkerisk:

Even if we were to reduce emissions to 0%, there would only be a visible climate change effect in 200 years (which does not mean giving up and not trying).

That is not true. If we reduced emissions to zero today, we would see global temperatures plateau in about 10 years.

https://climate.nasa.gov/faq/16/is-it-too-late-to-prevent-climate-change/

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/06/world-has-42-chance-of-breaching-1-5-degrees-if-emissions-stopped-today-new-study-finds/

Tinkerisk

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#3126584 12-Sep-2023 16:48

cddt:

Tinkerisk:

Even if we were to reduce emissions to 0%, there would only be a visible climate change effect in 200 years (which does not mean giving up and not trying).

That is not true. If we reduced emissions to zero today, we would see global temperatures plateau in about 10 years.

https://climate.nasa.gov/faq/16/is-it-too-late-to-prevent-climate-change/

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/06/world-has-42-chance-of-breaching-1-5-degrees-if-emissions-stopped-today-new-study-finds/

That can be the case, but it doesn't have to be. There are other calculation models than NASA's and it doesn't matter to me which one is the right one to justify my avoidance strategy.

In short: every avoidance is good, whether it has an impact in 10, 100 or 1000 years. However, if you continue as before until you get a proven, scientific value and only then act, it won't work.

Infinity is where two parallel lines cross each other and there is a big gap between knowledge and action.

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johno1234

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#3126585 12-Sep-2023 16:57

mkissin:

Tinkerisk:

Even if we were to reduce emissions to 0%, there would only be a visible climate change effect in 200 years

Citation needed.

Every wee tiny bit of CO2 (and other greenhouse gasses) avoided means less energy in the Earth system, which means less impact. It's the change in trajectory that is important. It might be bad currently, but it can always be worse.

If we reduced worldwide emissions to zero today there would be significant and immediate reduction in climate effects due to the rapid elimination of most of the world's urban population and subsequent elimination of most of the world's intensively farmed livestock.

Quite simply all the people and then animals would starve.

tdgeek

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#3126601 12-Sep-2023 17:03

mkissin:

Citation needed.

Every wee tiny bit of CO2 (and other greenhouse gasses) avoided means less energy in the Earth system, which means less impact. It's the change in trajectory that is important. It might be bad currently, but it can always be worse.

Years ago when I regularly ventured into climate change doco's, One said if we stopped today, it would take about 50 years for Eareth to stabilise the atmosphere

The caveat there though, is there will be a point in time when the climate feeds itself, the point of no return. Heavily weighted on the ice caps, that reflect a greta deal of solar rays. No citation

We do need to reduce emissions, look at what we can do to reverse the current effects (blocking solar rays artificially), sequestering and mitigation for what we have already done

mkissin

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#3126602 12-Sep-2023 17:03

johno1234:

If we reduced worldwide emissions to zero today there would be significant and immediate reduction in climate effects due to the rapid elimination of most of the world's urban population and subsequent elimination of most of the world's intensively farmed livestock.

Quite simply all the people and then animals would starve.

You'll note that I didn't suggest we could or should drop our emissions instantly to zero. Merely that every bit of CO2 we emit makes our situation slightly worse from a climate perspective.

On the other hand, we do seem determined do delay the drop as long as possible, so cest la vie.

Tinkerisk

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#3126603 12-Sep-2023 17:04

johno1234:

If we reduced worldwide …

I do (what I can do)! Got it?

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