Sub of the day - still current?

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#746688 18-Jan-2013 09:51

They ripping people off apprently

Subway, the world's largest fast food chain, is facing criticism after an Australian man posted a picture on the company's Facebook page of one of its famous sandwiches next to a tape measure that seems to shows it's not as long as promised.

The footlong sandwiches are meant to be 12 inches (304 millimetres), but the photo indicates the Australian's sandwich is just 11 inches (279mm).

More than 100,000 people have "liked" or commented on the photo, which has the caption: "Subway pls respond."

Lookalike pictures have popped up elsewhere on Facebook. And the New York Post conducted an investigation that found four out of seven footlong sandwiches were shorter than the length advertised.

By Thursday afternoon, the picture was no longer visible on Subway's Facebook page, which has 19.8 million fans.

A spokesman for Subway did not comment on the photo but said the length of its sandwiches can vary slightly when its bread, which is baked at each Subway location, is not made to the chain's exact specifications.

"We are reinforcing our policies and procedures in an effort to ensure our offerings are always consistent no matter which Subway restaurant you visit," Subway said in an emailed statement.

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/1587

sbiddle

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#746699 18-Jan-2013 10:05

Subway stores all use frozen dough for their bread. Yarrows (or whatever the new company is called) have the contract to supply a large chuck of the APAC region.

With frozen dough the frozen product is defrosted, put in a proofer which starts the proofing process resulting in the dough increasing in size by a few hundred %. It's then baked off on the oven.

Anybody who's ever baked bread in their life knows that the proofing process differs significantly depending on many variables, including environmental factors. Frozen dough also needs to be thoroughly defrosted or the final product will vary. Normally you're aiming for around 35 - 37 degrees with around 80% humidity. Temperatures too low or do high will severly affect the yeast.

Is there a story here? No.

All it really shows is that we live in a modern world where people have absolutely no idea how bread is baked and media hype overlooks basic fundamentals.

And no I don't (and never have) worked in a Subway.. But I've baked plenty of Yarrows frozen dough products in my life.

Valks

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#746702 18-Jan-2013 10:14

No wrong! Its not that at all. The so called "fundamentals" are that they clearly state you are buying a FOOT LONG or 6 INCH and to put it back into your terminology, anyone who has spent at least 2 and a half years at basic level primary school would know how long a foot or 6 inches is. Maybe bakers dont?

Subway should adjust their advertising because sooner or later some jumped up wannbe with too much cash than time will contact their lawyer *looks to the U.S.

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#746708 18-Jan-2013 10:27

The reason the bread is 11" is because it's under proofed and therefore doesn't have as much air in it as a fully proofed 12" roll.

Who are you going to sue for the missing air? It's not like the product is missing ingredients - you could very much argue it's an act of god!

macuser

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#746716 18-Jan-2013 10:43

sbiddle: The reason the bread is 11" is because it's under proofed and therefore doesn't have as much air in it as a fully proofed 12" roll.

Who are you going to sue for the missing air? It's not like the product is missing ingredients - you could very much argue it's an act of god!

Should it matter to the consumer how the product is made? If they ordered a foot long bun, shouldn't that be what they receive? It isn't an act of god, it's a preparation mistake made by the staff at Subway. I think it's a little different to McDonalds burgers not looking like the advertising, as they still give you what you ordered. You could argue that you are getting less because a smaller bun would call for less ingredients, although I'm sure subway has a portion control guide (say each foot long bun gets 6x salami, 5 tomato pieces etc).

freitasm

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#746720 18-Jan-2013 10:57

There's a reason why cereal boxes come with the warning "this product is sold by weight" - otherwise some people would expect the box to be filled to the top (yes, why do they sell boxes that large is another story).

As per the media hype, this could be anything, from a jealous competitor to someone looking for a minute fame. They do this all the time and people buy into it.

Valks

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#746721 18-Jan-2013 10:57

macuser:
sbiddle: The reason the bread is 11" is because it's under proofed and therefore doesn't have as much air in it as a fully proofed 12" roll.

Who are you going to sue for the missing air? It's not like the product is missing ingredients - you could very much argue it's an act of god!

Should it matter to the consumer how the product is made? If they ordered a foot long bun, shouldn't that be what they receive?

Excatly!

Biddle Im not busting your balls here and sorry if I sound like Im coming over like that, but all the making of it aside youre missing the point, a large company cannot.. or should not continue to advertise a product.. no matter how its made.. as one thing when its clearly not what it says. A simple wording change in their averts would solve this, youll probably see this happen if they have any sense... and btw, I love Subway.. yum :P

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sbiddle

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#746730 18-Jan-2013 11:09

macuser:
sbiddle: The reason the bread is 11" is because it's under proofed and therefore doesn't have as much air in it as a fully proofed 12" roll.

Who are you going to sue for the missing air? It's not like the product is missing ingredients - you could very much argue it's an act of god!

Should it matter to the consumer how the product is made? If they ordered a foot long bun, shouldn't that be what they receive? It isn't an act of god, it's a preparation mistake made by the staff at Subway. I think it's a little different to McDonalds burgers not looking like the advertising, as they still give you what you ordered. You could argue that you are getting less because a smaller bun would call for less ingredients, although I'm sure subway has a portion control guide (say each foot long bun gets 6x salami, 5 tomato pieces etc).

The use of the word "preparation mistake" assumes that the staff were at fault. This is a bold statement to make. I'll make a bold assumption here that you've never baked a loaf of bread in your life, am I correct?

Yes staff could be at fault, if bread was under proofed due to staff error the bread could be less than 12" long. If it was over proofed it would contain a lot more air and would be longer than 12" long.

Proofing bread is a wonder of science, with yeast reacting with moisture and head to cause a chemical reaction. Outside factors such as air temperature and humidity will have a significant impact on the ability for a proofer to maintain the required temperature and humidity, in the same way air conditioning or heat pumps struggle to maintain cooling or heating. Such a scenario would be the Perth heatwave, which just so happens to be where the product was purchased.

I'm not defending Subway in any way, I've had some terrible bread over the years, but this really is a storm in a teacup brewed from people who quite frankly have no idea why the issue has occured.

For the record it's also worth noting that the use of imperial measurements is actually illegal in NZ in retail trade, so describing something as a "foot" or "6 inch" has absolutely no meaning under our laws.

Archer77

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#746735 18-Jan-2013 11:12

If the proofing is the issue, then that's something Subway are responsible for. If they sell a product that is advertised as a foot long but isn't due to internal company issues, then that is a problem. Sounds like they might just need a cabinet or something that can be set to the correct humidity/temperature to proof their product properly. But that is obviously their responsiblity.

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#746736 18-Jan-2013 11:14

Archer77: If the proofing is the issue, then that's something Subway are responsible for. If they sell a product that is advertised as a foot long but isn't due to internal company issues, then that is a problem. Sounds like they might just need a cabinet or something that can be set to the correct humidity/temperature to proof their product properly. But that is obviously their responsiblity.

The device you describe is a proofer. It's what they use.

Archer77

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#746756 18-Jan-2013 11:36

Not properly by the sounds of it.

I still think it is a genuine story.
- It is very well known international company
- The problem is widespread affecting their product being sold in multiple countries
- Due to internal company failures they are selling products that do not meet their advertised 'specs'

Valks

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#746760 18-Jan-2013 11:39

Right thats it! Im gettin Subway for dins tonite, and Im taking a tape measure, gonn whip that bad boy out, hold up a no doubt huge line of people while I make my stand.

wish me well !

Satch

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#746809 18-Jan-2013 13:02

sbiddle:
macuser:
sbiddle: The reason the bread is 11" is because it's under proofed and therefore doesn't have as much air in it as a fully proofed 12" roll.

Who are you going to sue for the missing air? It's not like the product is missing ingredients - you could very much argue it's an act of god!

Should it matter to the consumer how the product is made? If they ordered a foot long bun, shouldn't that be what they receive? It isn't an act of god, it's a preparation mistake made by the staff at Subway. I think it's a little different to McDonalds burgers not looking like the advertising, as they still give you what you ordered. You could argue that you are getting less because a smaller bun would call for less ingredients, although I'm sure subway has a portion control guide (say each foot long bun gets 6x salami, 5 tomato pieces etc).

The use of the word "preparation mistake" assumes that the staff were at fault. This is a bold statement to make. I'll make a bold assumption here that you've never baked a loaf of bread in your life, am I correct?

Yes staff could be at fault, if bread was under proofed due to staff error the bread could be less than 12" long. If it was over proofed it would contain a lot more air and would be longer than 12" long.

Proofing bread is a wonder of science, with yeast reacting with moisture and head to cause a chemical reaction. Outside factors such as air temperature and humidity will have a significant impact on the ability for a proofer to maintain the required temperature and humidity, in the same way air conditioning or heat pumps struggle to maintain cooling or heating. Such a scenario would be the Perth heatwave, which just so happens to be where the product was purchased.

I'm not defending Subway in any way, I've had some terrible bread over the years, but this really is a storm in a teacup brewed from people who quite frankly have no idea why the issue has occured.

For the record it's also worth noting that the use of imperial measurements is actually illegal in NZ in retail trade, so describing something as a "foot" or "6 inch" has absolutely no meaning under our laws.

I'm sorry but this is all completely irrelevant. They advertise and sell their products based on length. If they are selling products less than the length they claim, then they are misleading the consumer. If bread making is that variable (I can't argue this point as I'm not a baker) then they need to add a contingency to their frozen dough to guarantee it will be AT LEAST the length they sell it as. Now if the width/diameter of their rolls changed then I don't think there would be such an issue as I don't believe they also sell based on weight or diameter.

Would you be happy if the 55 inch TV you purchased was only 51 inches? The 5 metre extension cord only 4 metres? I wouldn't think so...

Maybe Subway need to change their marketing to large and small subs if maintaining a fixed size is impossible...

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#746856 18-Jan-2013 13:42

You pretty really add a "contingency" to bread. The proofing process results in a product that results in a product roughly quadruple the size of a frozen product. The only way to ensure that the product was exactly 12 inches or greater would be for staff to measure every piece of bread after it's come out of the proofer and then stretch it if necessary before it's baked off.

As I also mentioned above imperial measurements at a retail level aren't legal in NZ. There is a significant difference between a 5m extension cord not being 5m and a footlong sub not being a foot long.

I also find it amazing that all of you are keen to bash subway over this issue but overlook a far greater issue, that a "6 inch" sub is very rarely ever 6 inches long. Staff cut these by hand taking a stab in the dark where the middle of the roll is. This means that unless they're dead on somebody gets a roll longer than 6" and the next person gets one shorter. Why has nobody raised this very valid issue? I know I have in store at times when I've been presented with a piece of roll that's clearly not cut in the middle.

Satch

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#746861 18-Jan-2013 13:54

sbiddle: You pretty really add a "contingency" to bread. The proofing process results in a product that results in a product roughly quadruple the size of a frozen product. The only way to ensure that the product was exactly 12 inches or greater would be for staff to measure every piece of bread after it's come out of the proofer and then stretch it if necessary before it's baked off.

As I also mentioned above imperial measurements at a retail level aren't legal in NZ. There is a significant difference between a 5m extension cord not being 5m and a footlong sub not being a foot long.

I also find it amazing that all of you are keen to bash subway over this issue but overlook a far greater issue, that a "6 inch" sub is very rarely ever 6 inches long. Staff cut these by hand taking a stab in the dark where the middle of the roll is. This means that unless they're dead on somebody gets a roll longer than 6" and the next person gets one shorter. Why has nobody raised this very valid issue? I know I have in store at times when I've been presented with a piece of roll that's clearly not cut in the middle.

For me this has nothing specifically to do with Subway. I am simply pointing out that just because Subway's manufacturing process makes it harder to meet their own and advertised specifications, it doesn't exempt them from misleading consumers. I would take the same line with any company who followed such practises.

Your point about the extension cord vs a sub is subjective therefore moot.

This issue is simply a company not selling what they advertise (if imperial measurements in retail are illegal in NZ, then why haven't they been prosecuted by now? Again, irrelevant). I've seen via the media other companies that were prosecuted in the past for selling under-weight/under-volume products, so why should this particular situation be any different?

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