Way Way Off topic Hot water dispensers!

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#942724 29-Nov-2013 10:13

gnfb: Getting int the area of "i don't have a clue what I am talking about!"

Can you buy a plug for a new Zealand socket that one would install oneself that has a fuse in it? her in new zealand?

The mains cable, plug, and fuse system are rated for 10A. If you change the plug it will just blow the fuse. If you change the fuse there's a (small) risk the cable overheats and causes a fire. If could be expensive to get working if you do it properly, the costs could far outweigh the savings even over many years.

All in all strongly suggest you don't use it.

RunningMan

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#942732 29-Nov-2013 10:24

gnfb:
RunningMan: If it's a 3kW appliance, you'll need to get a sparky to install a 15 amp outlet, and the matching plug on the appliance.

http://www.pdl.co.nz/product-details.aspx?rcat=products&catid=800&id=910

Ok I had one of these installed when i was in a place where i put a commercial coffee machine i think

Can I ask its just the Socket that is different ? it attaches to the same wires behind right?

The plug and socket are rated for 15 amps, rather than the usual 10 amps. It does connect to your internal wiring in the same manner, but the entire circuit (including internal cabling, circuit breaker, RCD etc.) needs to be rated for this current, or else it is a significant fire risk.

If you want to go down that path, I'd strongly suggest getting a sparky in to do it for you.

networkn

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#942735 29-Nov-2013 10:27

timmmay:
gnfb: Getting int the area of "i don't have a clue what I am talking about!"

Can you buy a plug for a new Zealand socket that one would install oneself that has a fuse in it? her in new zealand?

The mains cable, plug, and fuse system are rated for 10A. If you change the plug it will just blow the fuse. If you change the fuse there's a (small) risk the cable overheats and causes a fire. If could be expensive to get working if you do it properly, the costs could far outweigh the savings even over many years.

All in all strongly suggest you don't use it.

I strongly second this.

Bung

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#942764 29-Nov-2013 10:44

timmmay:The mains cable, plug, and fuse system are rated for 10A. If you change the plug it will just blow the fuse. If you change the fuse there's a (small) risk the cable overheats and causes a fire. If could be expensive to get working if you do it properly, the costs could far outweigh the savings even over many years.

With respect, that's a bit OTT except for possible cost issues.

The existing socket is rated for 10amps. The cable rating will depend on size and length and the circuit breaker will reflect that. Circuit breaker ratings are to protect the cable not the socket.

Have you noticed that it is common to have more than 1 socket on a circuit?

It will take an electrician to replace the 10amp socket with a 15 and he will check that the wiring is suitable.

timmmay

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#942767 29-Nov-2013 10:47

As I said the risk of fire isn't large, but an electrican callout is $80 - $100, rewiring could be another $100, they'd probably charge $30 for the socket. $230 buys quite a bit of hot water.

dolsen

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#942788 29-Nov-2013 10:57

Bung:
timmmay:The mains cable, plug, and fuse system are rated for 10A. If you change the plug it will just blow the fuse. If you change the fuse there's a (small) risk the cable overheats and causes a fire. If could be expensive to get working if you do it properly, the costs could far outweigh the savings even over many years.

With respect, that's a bit OTT except for possible cost issues.

The existing socket is rated for 10amps. The cable rating will depend on size and length and the circuit breaker will reflect that. Circuit breaker ratings are to protect the cable not the socket.

Have you noticed that it is common to have more than 1 socket on a circuit?

It will take an electrician to replace the 10amp socket with a 15 and he will check that the wiring is suitable.

Assume that you have a 2 outlet socket, that's 2x 10A available (20A).

Swap that with a single 15A if you want to feel safe.

I'm pretty sure that the only difference between the 10A & 15A plugs is the size of the earth connector (wider on the 15A ones to prevent being plugged into a 10A socket). The Phase / Neutral conductors are the same size, so, no technical benefit to having a 15A plug over a 10A one, other than it being "the correct one". That's assuming I'm right re the different pin size on the plugs.
Having said that, putting a 15A socket / plug is the right thing to do.

Edit - I was right re the pin sizes, check here

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#942799 29-Nov-2013 11:01

timmmay: As I said the risk of fire isn't large, but an electrican callout is $80 - $100, rewiring could be another $100, they'd probably charge $30 for the socket. $230 buys quite a bit of hot water.

15 amp sockets are expensive, the electrician is more likely to charge $50. We had two fitted for the washing machine and the dryer. The electrician suggested it because he said they were more robust than the cheapie 10 amp sockets. He was wrong (we've already had one fail).

gnfb

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#942810 29-Nov-2013 11:08

Very depressing :(
I have been using my UK dualit toaster for the last 12 months is that likely to catch fire to?

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#942815 29-Nov-2013 11:10

dolsen: Assume that you have a 2 outlet socket, that's 2x 10A available (20A).

Swap that with a single 15A if you want to feel safe.

I'm pretty sure that the only difference between the 10A & 15A plugs is the size of the earth connector (wider on the 15A ones to prevent being plugged into a 10A socket). The Phase / Neutral conductors are the same size, so, no technical benefit to having a 15A plug over a 10A one, other than it being "the correct one". That's assuming I'm right re the different pin size on the plugs.
Having said that, putting a 15A socket / plug is the right thing to do.

Edit - I was right re the pin sizes, check here

When you have 2x10A outlets do they run two 10A cables, or one cable to both with the assumption that you'll never draw 10A from the sockets? Watching qualified electricians doing things at home it looked to me like one cable ran around a whole room, so you shouldn't draw more than 10A at a time per room or circuit. I could be wrong, I'm not an expert.

timmmay

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#942817 29-Nov-2013 11:12

gnfb: Very depressing :(
I have been using my UK dualit toaster for the last 12 months is that likely to catch fire to?

The specifications for this toaster say 2.2kw, which is within what a NZ socket is meant to supply - 240V/10A is 2.4kw.

gnfb

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#942818 29-Nov-2013 11:14

actually lets just summarise

if i change just the plug on the unit so that it plugs into the standard wall socket through the pwerblock that has the reset button

It will
a. immediately catch fire and burn the house down
b. likely to constantly blow the reset
c. cause the cable to get hot but work anyway
d. something else

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#942827 29-Nov-2013 11:21

timmmay:
dolsen: Assume that you have a 2 outlet socket, that's 2x 10A available (20A).

Swap that with a single 15A if you want to feel safe.

I'm pretty sure that the only difference between the 10A & 15A plugs is the size of the earth connector (wider on the 15A ones to prevent being plugged into a 10A socket). The Phase / Neutral conductors are the same size, so, no technical benefit to having a 15A plug over a 10A one, other than it being "the correct one". That's assuming I'm right re the different pin size on the plugs.
Having said that, putting a 15A socket / plug is the right thing to do.

Edit - I was right re the pin sizes, check here

When you have 2x10A outlets do they run two 10A cables, or one cable to both with the assumption that you'll never draw 10A from the sockets? Watching qualified electricians doing things at home it looked to me like one cable ran around a whole room, so you shouldn't draw more than 10A at a time per room or circuit. I could be wrong, I'm not an expert.

Double socket outlets now have 1 input (1 cable). I've seen some older ones (HPM I think) where there was two inputs for the two outlets, but, haven't seen any new ones for a while.

In the kitchen, the electriction should be aware of higher loads (toaster / jugs etc), so, there would be less outlets on 1 cable run.

Disclaimer - I am not an electrician.

timmmay

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#942831 29-Nov-2013 11:22

gnfb: actually lets just summarise

if i change just the plug on the unit so that it plugs into the standard wall socket through the pwerblock that has the reset button

It will
a. immediately catch fire and burn the house down
b. likely to constantly blow the reset
c. cause the cable to get hot but work anyway
d. something else

Definitely B.

Also if you solve B either C or A, which is why you need advise from a professional not a bunch of people on the internet who may or may not know anything about this.

andrewNZ

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#942882 29-Nov-2013 12:18

I am an electrician.

Graham, I suggest you at the very least have a sparky look at your situation, perhaps you can find a friendly one who will give you a free quote and advice. There are variables that can't be known without looking.
There are some things I'd like to point out.

1) 10 Amps is the MAXIMUM the outlet and/or plug is rated for, not it's ideal working load. If 10A plugs were safe for 15A, they'd be 15A plugs. 10A sockets often have 10A switches, and they are in my experience fairly close to their limit at 10A.

2) These things have a 3kW element, but that doesn't tell you what they are rated at, it might be more, it might be less. The rating plate, sometimes a sticker often moulded into the plastic, is what will tell you for sure. I have seen 10A appliances that draw more but only for a very short amount of time.

gnfb

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#942885 29-Nov-2013 12:37

andrewNZ: I am an electrician.

Graham, I suggest you at the very least have a sparky look at your situation, perhaps you can find a friendly one who will give you a free quote and advice. There are variables that can't be known without looking.
There are some things I'd like to point out.

1) 10 Amps is the MAXIMUM the outlet and/or plug is rated for, not it's ideal working load. If 10A plugs were safe for 15A, they'd be 15A plugs. 10A sockets often have 10A switches, and they are in my experience fairly close to their limit at 10A.

2) These things have a 3kW element, but that doesn't tell you what they are rated at, it might be more, it might be less. The rating plate, sometimes a sticker often moulded into the plastic, is what will tell you for sure. I have seen 10A appliances that draw more but only for a very short amount of time.

Thank you sir!

As a side funny story to all this
My ex wife and i the first time she went to the uk with me we had cause to buy an applince at that time it was standard that uk appliances did not come with a plug affixed.
She assumed it was the governments way of keeping the population down by way of proable electrocution, from people not knowing what they were doing !!

Is an English Man living in New Zealand. Not a writer, an Observer he says. Graham is a seasoned 'traveler" with his sometimes arrogant, but honest opinion on life. He loves the Internet!.

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