"In Trade" - Trademe

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#1071337 20-Jun-2014 22:31

It just means that either seconhand items will cost more, Or won't be available anymore. Yet another law that hurts those on low incomes. Just because some people are happy to pay less for an item because it was being sold "as is where is" yet complained when it broke and were told "sorry no guarantee".

Just think of it as the govt saying "you must provide compulsory insurance against failure on everything that you sell in trade"

MadEngineer

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#1071339 20-Jun-2014 22:34

networkn: So the seller of a second hand item is now responsible for the "reasonable" life of a component. Insanity. Or is it that the Manufacturer is still responsible even if it's been resold?

How would they get around the whole, warranty is valid only to the original purchaser?

Manufacturer has never been liable. The sale to the seller has always been a contract between the seller and the buyer.

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

mattwnz

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#1071340 20-Jun-2014 22:42

MadEngineer:
networkn: So the seller of a second hand item is now responsible for the "reasonable" life of a component. Insanity. Or is it that the Manufacturer is still responsible even if it's been resold?

How would they get around the whole, warranty is valid only to the original purchaser?

Manufacturer has never been liable. The sale to the seller has always been a contract between the seller and the buyer.

I believe you are incorrect, as per the ministry of consumer affairs website.

Who sorts out your problem

You can choose to go back to either the retailer or the manufacturer.
What is a manufacturer, what is a retailer?

A manufacturer is a business who manufactures goods but does not sell them directly to you as a consumer. If the goods are manufactured outside New Zealand, the importer or distributor is considered to be the manufacturer under the Consumer Guarantees Act.

A retailer is anyone in in trade who sells goods directly to you, including retailers in shops, online retailers, second-hand dealers, and motor vehicle dealers. It also includes manufacturers who sell goods directly to the consumer. The Act calls this role a 'supplier'.

mattwnz

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#1071341 20-Jun-2014 22:46

Aredwood: It just means that either seconhand items will cost more, Or won't be available anymore. Yet another law that hurts those on low incomes. Just because some people are happy to pay less for an item because it was being sold "as is where is" yet complained when it broke and were told "sorry no guarantee".

Just think of it as the govt saying "you must provide compulsory insurance against failure on everything that you sell in trade"

Hasn't that always been the case though. It is possibly better to sell second hand stuff privately.

Maybe this is why shops that sell second hand stuff, can often sell the goods for not much less than what you can buy them for new. But I guess the upside for them, is that they often buy the goods significantly cheaper, than they would buy the product new from their manufacturer. I believe under the CGA, you would expect a second hand good to have a shorter life than a new product, so that is one thing on the retailers side.

AidanS

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#1071344 20-Jun-2014 22:55

Why is everyone crying about the CGA applying to second hand goods? The law hasn't changed since 1993, hence it's name: "Consumer Guarantees Act 1993". If there was no protection under second hand goods I could literally sell fake/dud goods as second hand and then when buyers complain just say "sorry, don't have to help". The CGA is open ended intentionally to allow it to cater for all situations including second hand goods. Meaning that a "reasonable time" for, say a brand new dishwasher might be < 8 years, whereas a "reasonable" time for a second hand camera that's 6 months old might be 1 and a half years.

As far as I'm aware (correct me if I'm wrong), the only recent law changes are around the publicity of traders, especially on internet auction sites. Previously the CGA only applied to auctions that were sold at a fixed price, and not "bidded" for. The actual protection hasn't changed, just the way traders must present themselves online.

-A.

teamyoyo

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#1071365 20-Jun-2014 23:11

AidanS: Why is everyone crying about the CGA applying to second hand goods? The law hasn't changed since 1993, hence it's name: "Consumer Guarantees Act 1993". If there was no protection under second hand goods I could literally sell fake/dud goods as second hand and then when buyers complain just say "sorry, don't have to help". The CGA is open ended intentionally to allow it to cater for all situations including second hand goods. Meaning that a "reasonable time" for, say a brand new dishwasher might be < 8 years, whereas a "reasonable" time for a second hand camera that's 6 months old might be 1 and a half years.

As far as I'm aware (correct me if I'm wrong), the only recent law changes are around the publicity of traders, especially on internet auction sites. Previously the CGA only applied to auctions that were sold at a fixed price, and not "bidded" for. The actual protection hasn't changed, just the way traders must present themselves online.

-A.

Sssshhh!!!! Don't let logic and accuracy get in the way of a discussion. It's not the human way.

You don't choose a book by its cover but it does determine which ones you read.

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mattwnz

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#1071366 20-Jun-2014 23:16

AidanS: Why is everyone crying about the CGA applying to second hand goods? The law hasn't changed since 1993, hence it's name: "Consumer Guarantees Act 1993". If there was no protection under second hand goods I could literally sell fake/dud goods as second hand and then when buyers complain just say "sorry, don't have to help". The CGA is open ended intentionally to allow it to cater for all situations including second hand goods. Meaning that a "reasonable time" for, say a brand new dishwasher might be < 8 years, whereas a "reasonable" time for a second hand camera that's 6 months old might be 1 and a half years.

As far as I'm aware (correct me if I'm wrong), the only recent law changes are around the publicity of traders, especially on internet auction sites. Previously the CGA only applied to auctions that were sold at a fixed price, and not "bidded" for. The actual protection hasn't changed, just the way traders must present themselves online.

-A.

I think you are missing a major change, and that is that 'auctions' are now covered by the CGA, not just 'buy now'. So there is far more to it than a retailer having to advertise that they are 'in trade'.
I beleive previously retailers were selling second hand things via online auctions, so people weren't covered by the CGA, as there was effectively a loophole with the CGA. Whereas if the goods were purchased via buy now, then they would be covered by the CGA. That is one reason so many things were sold via auctions. I wonder if we will now see less auctions on trademe by professional sellers, and they will just have a buy now price.

MadEngineer

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#1071367 20-Jun-2014 23:17

mattwnz:
MadEngineer:
networkn: So the seller of a second hand item is now responsible for the "reasonable" life of a component. Insanity. Or is it that the Manufacturer is still responsible even if it's been resold?

How would they get around the whole, warranty is valid only to the original purchaser?

Manufacturer has never been liable. The sale to the seller has always been a contract between the seller and the buyer.

I believe you are incorrect, as per the ministry of consumer affairs website.

Who sorts out your problem

You can choose to go back to either the retailer or the manufacturer.
What is a manufacturer, what is a retailer?

A manufacturer is a business who manufactures goods but does not sell them directly to you as a consumer. If the goods are manufactured outside New Zealand, the importer or distributor is considered to be the manufacturer under the Consumer Guarantees Act.

A retailer is anyone in in trade who sells goods directly to you, including retailers in shops, online retailers, second-hand dealers, and motor vehicle dealers. It also includes manufacturers who sell goods directly to the consumer. The Act calls this role a 'supplier'.

this is all true but my responce is aimed at the person I quoted in their context.

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

eracode

Smpl Mnmlst
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#1071391 21-Jun-2014 01:52

networkn:

I have a personal trademe account, but I also use this to sell items we get back from customers replaced with new stuff, as a method of disposal (which is sold by my company). It's all second hand or older technology related items. I also use the account for my personal acquisitions.

OT but couldn't this be potentially messy from a tax/GST point of view, mixing personal and company transactions in one account?

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

AidanS

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Ultimate Geek
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#1071410 21-Jun-2014 06:59

mattwnz:

I think you are missing a major change, and that is that 'auctions' are now covered by the CGA, not just 'buy now'. So there is far more to it than a retailer having to advertise that they are 'in trade'.
I beleive previously retailers were selling second hand things via online auctions, so people weren't covered by the CGA, as there was effectively a loophole with the CGA. Whereas if the goods were purchased via buy now, then they would be covered by the CGA. That is one reason so many things were sold via auctions. I wonder if we will now see less auctions on trademe by professional sellers, and they will just have a buy now price.

Fair point, but at the end of the day if you aren't willing to support your products, second hand or brand new then don't sell them.

-A.

gnfb

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#1073373 24-Jun-2014 12:36

Hands up those who vote we go back to the wild west days of New Zealand when "shel be right" meant "no worries"

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networkn

Networkn
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#1073376 24-Jun-2014 12:39

gnfb: Hands up those who vote we go back to the wild west days of New Zealand when "shel be right" meant "no worries"

/me puts his hand up.

Lyderies

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#1073418 24-Jun-2014 13:30

gnfb: Hands up those who vote we go back to the wild west days of New Zealand when "shel be right" meant "no worries"

can i sign the petition please

I'm going to noob myself past judgement

Kyanar

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#1073809 25-Jun-2014 00:07

AidanS: Why is everyone crying about the CGA applying to second hand goods? The law hasn't changed since 1993, hence it's name: "Consumer Guarantees Act 1993". If there was no protection under second hand goods I could literally sell fake/dud goods as second hand and then when buyers complain just say "sorry, don't have to help". The CGA is open ended intentionally to allow it to cater for all situations including second hand goods. Meaning that a "reasonable time" for, say a brand new dishwasher might be < 8 years, whereas a "reasonable" time for a second hand camera that's 6 months old might be 1 and a half years.

-A.

Slight note, it actually changed in 1994, 2003 (twice), 2007, 2009, and 2013. You forgot to take into account legislation that amended the primary act rather than replacing it ;)

AidanS

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#1073846 25-Jun-2014 07:06

Slight note, it actually changed in 1994, 2003 (twice), 2007, 2009, and 2013. You forgot to take into account legislation that amended the primary act rather than replacing it ;)

Fair point, but my principle still stands.

-A.

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