Recommend my mum a coffee machine

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#1359584 5-Aug-2015 18:03

mattwnz: Some of these machines appear to be a bit like inkjet printers, where they give the machine away chealy but you need to buy capsuales, which appear to be an expensive way to buy coffee. I find plunger coffee to be just as good and quick, and cheaper. But people like to have a machine in their kitchen to look good. I do ahve an expensive machine too with a steam frother, but don't really use it as a hassle to clean. For a milk frother, you can get a manual one similar to a coffee plunger which you plung up and down to froth, and it works just as well as an expensive steam one.

You are correct it's not a cheap way to have coffee.
It will end up being a xmas present or if I do keep it then it will be used for when people come over for coffee.
I don't really drink that much and 99% of the time if I do drink it then it's at work.

Jaxson

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#1359797 6-Aug-2015 08:18

Where do people buy the refills for Nespresso from?

Our Dolce Gusto machine cartridges are available from the supermarket easily.
This might be something to consider if it's a gift for someone else?

lxsw20

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#1359798 6-Aug-2015 08:19

I buy the jeds capsules for nespresso from the supermarket. Genuine ones I just buy from their online store.

trig42

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#1359844 6-Aug-2015 09:43

Pretty easy to get capsules - the Nespresso online store is fast and efficient.
Supermarkets and the Warehouse have generic pods cheaper.

Fred99

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#1360010 6-Aug-2015 13:57

mattwnz: Some of these machines appear to be a bit like inkjet printers, where they give the machine away chealy but you need to buy capsuales, which appear to be an expensive way to buy coffee. I find plunger coffee to be just as good and quick, and cheaper. But people like to have a machine in their kitchen to look good. I do ahve an expensive machine too with a steam frother, but don't really use it as a hassle to clean. For a milk frother, you can get a manual one similar to a coffee plunger which you plung up and down to froth, and it works just as well as an expensive steam one.

The sales model is almost exactly the same as inkjet printers. At $1 each for about 8g of coffee, that's about $125/kg for coffee. I get gourmet roasted beans for $40/kg but you can get adequate quality (compared to nespresso) beans at much lower price than that. (or roast your own - another interesting possibility for coffee lovers) Nespresso branded caps aren't too bad, but don't compare - always a bit stale tasting, but for sure much better than buying pre-ground beans or otherwise poorly made home espresso. I believe that Nespresso are packed/sealed under nitrogen - probably why they taste better/fresher than some alternatives, but good barista prepared (or home espresso if you have the gear and willingness to learn) is much better.

I'm pretty sure that many people are quite used to stale coffee and have acquired a taste for it, it goes off quickly after grinding (in minutes) some cafes are slack and pre-grind and let it sit too long, or are slack with back-flushing and cleaning their machines. The standard shop espresso machines also have press button volumetric dosing. It's too easy for poorly trained operators to lapse into grinding too coarse to avoid any chance of choking the machine - I see it all the time where the coffee starts coming out of the portafilter in an immediate gush - but still only 30/60ml is pumped through as the machine cuts flow once that dose is reached. That problem is exacerbated in badly run cafes where they've got several different poorly trained staff operating the machine, they'll all dose and tamp differently so someone over-doses, tamps too hard, chokes the machine , then adjusts the grinder which makes it even worse for the other operators. Poor training, poor management and QA, but high prices as if they were offering a premium product. If that's the market with which Nespresso compete, then it's no wonder it's such a commercial success for Nestle.

Jaxson

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#1360015 6-Aug-2015 14:03

Fred99, I hear you and funnily was just saying the other day that it's common now to expect bad coffee and be surprised and happy even if it turns out to be mediocre or better.

Anyone tried the Nespresso Hot Chocolate capsules vs the Dolce Gusto ones?

jonathan18

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#1360032 6-Aug-2015 14:35

I think coffee - more than most items - is really a matter of "horses for courses".

Many people will value the ease, speed and tidyness of a Nespresso machine. Given the low level of user involvement, I'd imagine they also produce fairly constant results. As pointed out above, a full espresso machine is a complex beast with many variables that go into producing the ideal coffee; get one or more of these wrong and you quite possibly will have a poor drink. They also take a lot of time and they're often mess; if they're relatively automated to avoid some of these issues they're also expensive.

I can therefore see why many will elect for the Nespresso approach, despite questions some may have over the overall freshness of the beans, the cost per cup, and the quality of the final product. Personally, I've never tried it, and am totally put off by the per-unit cost (and, I imagine, inability to easily select fairtrade-sourced beans). That said, I'd like to try one for myself just to see what I think - anyone want to give me theirs?!

Personally, the ideal balance for me is a stovetop espresso - I like the depth and flavour over a plunger, it's highly cost-effective and can use fresh beans (I buy fairtrade beans from a local roaster for $33sh a kg) , it's relatively quick - certainly a damn site quicker than heating, using, then cleaning our espresso machine, which sits in the cupboard unused month-to-month, and isn't as fussy about the grind (I can use a fairly basic burr grinder without issue).

Totally concur on the quality of coffee one purchases from cafes; I've really stopped buying coffee unless it's from certain places. My theory is that the best coffee is typically from coffee carts or similar - given they have nothing much more to offer their potential customers (no place to sit under shelter, little selection of food, no ambience...), they have to get their coffee right or people just won't turn up. A case in point is the Streetwise chain in the lower NI - I can't think of a bad coffee I've had from one of carts.

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#1360188 6-Aug-2015 17:30

jonathan18: I think coffee - more than most items - is really a matter of "horses for courses".

Many people will value the ease, speed and tidyness of a Nespresso machine. Given the low level of user involvement, I'd imagine they also produce fairly constant results. As pointed out above, a full espresso machine is a complex beast with many variables that go into producing the ideal coffee; get one or more of these wrong and you quite possibly will have a poor drink. They also take a lot of time and they're often mess; if they're relatively automated to avoid some of these issues they're also expensive.

I can therefore see why many will elect for the Nespresso approach, despite questions some may have over the overall freshness of the beans, the cost per cup, and the quality of the final product. Personally, I've never tried it, and am totally put off by the per-unit cost (and, I imagine, inability to easily select fairtrade-sourced beans). That said, I'd like to try one for myself just to see what I think - anyone want to give me theirs?!

Personally, the ideal balance for me is a stovetop espresso - I like the depth and flavour over a plunger, it's highly cost-effective and can use fresh beans (I buy fairtrade beans from a local roaster for $33sh a kg) , it's relatively quick - certainly a damn site quicker than heating, using, then cleaning our espresso machine, which sits in the cupboard unused month-to-month, and isn't as fussy about the grind (I can use a fairly basic burr grinder without issue).

Totally concur on the quality of coffee one purchases from cafes; I've really stopped buying coffee unless it's from certain places. My theory is that the best coffee is typically from coffee carts or similar - given they have nothing much more to offer their potential customers (no place to sit under shelter, little selection of food, no ambience...), they have to get their coffee right or people just won't turn up. A case in point is the Streetwise chain in the lower NI - I can't think of a bad coffee I've had from one of carts.

I went with Nespresso as it meant I could easily have a selection of high quality coffees to choose from when I wanted a coffee, and it was quick and easy with out and waiting around, or cleaning up. Sometime I don't have time for in the mornings.

I find Nespresso coffee to be better than quite a few cafes, and consistant (again - better than quite a few cafes).

Yep, it costs more than some other methods, but then it costs a lot less than a coffee from a cafe too! I'm paying a little less per day for coffee with my Nespresso machines - but then that is 1 cafe coffee c.f. 3 or 4 Nespresso coffees. Big win in my books - especially since I can have it at home or work (yes, I have a machine at both)

As to your comments about Fair Trade - this from the Nespresso website:

In 2003, together with the Rainforest Alliance, we launched our own programme to benefit our coffee growers: the Nespresso AAA Sustainable Quality™ Program. The partnership brought together the Nespresso expertise and knowledge in highest quality coffee cultivation with the twenty years of experience that the Rainforest Alliance has of helping farmers on the path to sustainability. It guarantees growers, from whom we buy coffee, benefits derived from a shared commitment to ultimate quality. Today, almost half of the coffee used by Nespresso comes from this programme. We aim to reach 80% by 2013.

And if you use Google you will find further, more recent information regarding Nespresso and Fair Trade.

So I would guess that would be part of what pushes the price of the Nespresso capsules up.

Fred99

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#1360208 6-Aug-2015 17:56

keewee01:

As to your comments about Fair Trade - this from the Nespresso website:

In 2003, together with the Rainforest Alliance, we launched our own programme to benefit our coffee growers: the Nespresso AAA Sustainable Quality™ Program. The partnership brought together the Nespresso expertise and knowledge in highest quality coffee cultivation with the twenty years of experience that the Rainforest Alliance has of helping farmers on the path to sustainability. It guarantees growers, from whom we buy coffee, benefits derived from a shared commitment to ultimate quality. Today, almost half of the coffee used by Nespresso comes from this programme. We aim to reach 80% by 2013.

And if you use Google you will find further, more recent information regarding Nespresso and Fair Trade.

So I would guess that would be part of what pushes the price of the Nespresso capsules up.

That's simple "greenwashing" - obfuscation and deceit to undermine / dilute efforts by certified freetrade and environmental organisations.
Whether or not you agree with those organisations goals, consumers need to understand when they're being had.
Not saying that there might be some benefit from Nestle's program for growers, but you can bet it won't be even close to what genuine Freetrade offers.

A similar situation exists with things like SPCA "blue tick" cage-free eggs. There are eggs on supermarkets shelves plastered with similar but green ticks. Completely meaningless - but at a premium price to cheap cage eggs - if you don't care what you eat and how it was produced, you may as well buy the cheapest rather than the fake "tick" eggs which would only reward the disingenuous grower for tricking you.

keewee01

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#1360639 7-Aug-2015 13:05

Fred99:
keewee01:

As to your comments about Fair Trade - this from the Nespresso website:

In 2003, together with the Rainforest Alliance, we launched our own programme to benefit our coffee growers: the Nespresso AAA Sustainable Quality™ Program. The partnership brought together the Nespresso expertise and knowledge in highest quality coffee cultivation with the twenty years of experience that the Rainforest Alliance has of helping farmers on the path to sustainability. It guarantees growers, from whom we buy coffee, benefits derived from a shared commitment to ultimate quality. Today, almost half of the coffee used by Nespresso comes from this programme. We aim to reach 80% by 2013.

And if you use Google you will find further, more recent information regarding Nespresso and Fair Trade.

So I would guess that would be part of what pushes the price of the Nespresso capsules up.

That's simple "greenwashing" - obfuscation and deceit to undermine / dilute efforts by certified freetrade and environmental organisations.
Whether or not you agree with those organisations goals, consumers need to understand when they're being had.
Not saying that there might be some benefit from Nestle's program for growers, but you can bet it won't be even close to what genuine Freetrade offers.

A similar situation exists with things like SPCA "blue tick" cage-free eggs. There are eggs on supermarkets shelves plastered with similar but green ticks. Completely meaningless - but at a premium price to cheap cage eggs - if you don't care what you eat and how it was produced, you may as well buy the cheapest rather than the fake "tick" eggs which would only reward the disingenuous grower for tricking you.

Have you got references to where you've got your infromation that it is "greenwashing"?

You might have missed the comment I made about more recent work between Nespresso and FairTrade so I have bolded it now so you shouldn't be able to miss it. I was just making a quick comment after doing some researching on it, rather than posting the links and other information I did find (some of it on the Fairtrade International website!

)

Once you have actually done some research you might like to retract your comments.

xlinknz

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#1360660 7-Aug-2015 13:30

The $150 Sunbeam Piccolo EM2800 which you can get for $149 rated 5th in the most recent consumer test, this will however mean frothing milk

We have had a Breville $150 machine [Cafe Roma] for 10 years that makes as good espresso coffee as any other home espresso machine I have experienced including some that cost 10 times as much

My point is don't fall for cost=quality, what is important is how it is made, fresh beans, right grind etc

Almost anyone can make a very good expresso on an inexpensive consumer expresso machine when shown how

Jaxson

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#1360689 7-Aug-2015 14:18

I suppose there could be a good argument that the capsules are vacuum sealed, so should be pretty fresh if done right.

Handsomedan

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#1360692 7-Aug-2015 14:23

xlinknz: The $150 Sunbeam Piccolo EM2800 which you can get for $149 rated 5th in the most recent consumer test, this will however mean frothing milk

We have had a Breville $150 machine [Cafe Roma] for 10 years that makes as good espresso coffee as any other home espresso machine I have experienced including some that cost 10 times as much

My point is don't fall for cost=quality, what is important is how it is made, fresh beans, right grind etc

Almost anyone can make a very good expresso on an inexpensive consumer expresso machine when shown how

I completely agree.

I had a Roma before upgrading to the machine I now have.
The coffee was as good, if fresh, and it's all about the way you tamp, the pressure and grind.
And of course, the way you expand your milk.

I simply can't take to a machine that simply fluffs up the milk, like the ones that have a whisk in them...

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Fred99

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#1360721 7-Aug-2015 15:27

keewee01:
Fred99:
keewee01:

As to your comments about Fair Trade - this from the Nespresso website:

In 2003, together with the Rainforest Alliance, we launched our own programme to benefit our coffee growers: the Nespresso AAA Sustainable Quality™ Program. The partnership brought together the Nespresso expertise and knowledge in highest quality coffee cultivation with the twenty years of experience that the Rainforest Alliance has of helping farmers on the path to sustainability. It guarantees growers, from whom we buy coffee, benefits derived from a shared commitment to ultimate quality. Today, almost half of the coffee used by Nespresso comes from this programme. We aim to reach 80% by 2013.

And if you use Google you will find further, more recent information regarding Nespresso and Fair Trade.

So I would guess that would be part of what pushes the price of the Nespresso capsules up.

That's simple "greenwashing" - obfuscation and deceit to undermine / dilute efforts by certified freetrade and environmental organisations.
Whether or not you agree with those organisations goals, consumers need to understand when they're being had.
Not saying that there might be some benefit from Nestle's program for growers, but you can bet it won't be even close to what genuine Freetrade offers.

A similar situation exists with things like SPCA "blue tick" cage-free eggs. There are eggs on supermarkets shelves plastered with similar but green ticks. Completely meaningless - but at a premium price to cheap cage eggs - if you don't care what you eat and how it was produced, you may as well buy the cheapest rather than the fake "tick" eggs which would only reward the disingenuous grower for tricking you.

Have you got references to where you've got your infromation that it is "greenwashing"?

You might have missed the comment I made about more recent work between Nespresso and FairTrade so I have bolded it now so you shouldn't be able to miss it. I was just making a quick comment after doing some researching on it, rather than posting the links and other information I did find (some of it on the Fairtrade International website! )

Once you have actually done some research you might like to retract your comments.

I wasn't aware that Nestle had reached some compromise agreement with Fairtrade for a very few products - but nope - I won't retract the comments. As the largest buyer of coffee beans in the world, the vast bulk of Nestle production remains very much unfair trade - the same with cocoa. Releasing some "gourmet lines" with fairtrade labels with an aim to raise that to 10% of nespresso might be a step in the right direction, but when your the #1 player in the market and thus largely responsible for the problem, then easing the conscience of a few wealthy westerners is greenwashing. It's a drop in the ocean.
They have a history of forming / joining industry groups promising seemingly parallel goals to recognised organisations. If you don't ask "why?" (ie why not join recognised established global organisations), then you won't find the answer.

mattwnz

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#1360723 7-Aug-2015 15:30

Has anyone done professional taste tests on the different coffees making systems. In the past Target used to do that sort of thing, although that program is long gone. Consumers tests aren't very comprehensive, and usually don't look at longer term reliability and taste, just the product operation. If you google a product name, you can often get ratings from Ozzie rating sites. Amazon is also a good site to compare models and read peoples reviews, although they may not have NZ models. I think reading peoples reviews on Amazon is far more informative for finding out how a product works and how long it lasts, as often people will update their reviews if they develop problems.

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