IN or OUT? All on in the UK for the next 10 weeks.

Forums › Off topic › IN or OUT? All on in the UK for the next 10 weeks.

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#1534156 16-Apr-2016 22:41

roobarb:

Fog in channel, Continent isolated.

It is sad that today, if you see the Flag of St George flying from a house, or more likely draped from an upstairs window; you have found the house of either a football supporter or a racist bigot.

There is one other place, not that the parish church usually houses either....!

Geektastic

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#1534157 16-Apr-2016 22:43

roobarb:

Geektastic:

They simply cannot envision Britain running the world and most of them have carefully be 'educated' to ensure they really have little, if any, idea just how vast the Empire was and just how much we achieved in it.

I don't know if you have been reading the papers, but the British Empire doesn't exist now.

If the UK left Europe, don't be surprised if Scotland finds a way to leave the UK and stay in Europe.

You've missed the point. The point is that many people of voting age today have no knowledge of the fact that until recently Britain stood firmly on her own two feet.

Personally I would be delighted to see the back of Scotland. It has made itself a PITA in the last few years and an expensive one at that. It's all very well for them to have a referendum on leaving - how come we English never get one on kicking them out?!

PhantomNVD

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#1534158 16-Apr-2016 22:47

So, as a uk citizen with a current passport, how do I organise to get my vote counted, without having to leave NZ to do so?

Geektastic

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#1534159 16-Apr-2016 22:48

Linuxluver:

DaveB:

As many of us ex Brits are aware, the gloves are off in the UK as they start a 10 week campaign to decide whether England stays in the EU. Now the thing that has disgusted me more than ever (and regardless of what I believe is the best thing for them to do) is the snivelling low that their politicians are allowed to go.

Fact 1: The government bows to public pressure and agrees to a referendum. In other words, they agree (in theory) to allow the public to have their say.

Fact 2: The government will only allow the use of public money and access to current information to fund those campaigns that support staying in the EU. In other words, any politician or organisation that promotes otherwise are on their own.

Sounds a bit one sided to me and I have to question, why not just go back to working for, and representing, the wishes of the people?

Regardless, Sky News (UK) and BBC 24 Home news will be my go to streaming options for the next 10 weeks.

Stay in the EU.

A vote to leave would be proof to the world that Brits are essentially genetically incapable of compromise and cooperation for the good of everyone. Just a country full of grumpy old farts who moan about camels being horses designed by a committee (thus revealing they have never learned even the most basic skills of cooperation....and never been on a committee unless they were dictator).

Do you know how much it costs Britain to stay in?

About NZ$20 BILLION net of rebate every year since joining.

To an organisation whose auditors have refused to sign off the accounts - citing endless irregularities and improper use of funds - for no less than 19 years. You can read about that here

Geektastic

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#1534162 16-Apr-2016 22:57

One of the biggest problems is psychological.

1) Britain has fought wars against a variety of continental powers for a period well in excess of 2000 years: this eventually becomes a part of our fabric

2) If a Frenchman wishes to go to Germany to do some shopping, he goes and gets in his Citroen and drives to Germany. It's no harder - and requires no more paperwork - than driving from Auckland to Hamilton. If an Englishman wishes to do that, he needs to buy a ferry ticket, get his passport and head on down, then drive on the wrong side of the road and so forth. All of which adds to a feeling of separation and 'otherness'.

3) We do not much like a court of foreign judges over ruling our own courts and Parliament and telling us we must, for example, permit migrants convicted of rape and worse to remain in our country. It's akin to the Australian Supreme Court being able to overrule the courts in NZ.

The EU has never made any effort to reduce this separation. For example, if they (in return for all this money we pay them) provided free cross channel ferry travel for EU passport holders so that the cost of being separated from mainland Europe was largely negated, I am sure that British people would feel a lot less inclined to consider the Channel as a moat.

PhantomNVD

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#1534166 16-Apr-2016 23:09

Well, ferries do cost money to run... But their is this tunnel thing they dug a while back that could definitely ease the issue if it were centrally funded rather than user pays...

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#1534168 16-Apr-2016 23:51

Geektastic:
Were I voting, I would be voting to leave. Europe offers Britain nothing it could not get by way of trade deals rather than membership (as other countries have proved)

If you are referring to Norway and Iceland, that's probably not deals you would want.

It's the same deal as being a part of the EU, minus voting rights

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roobarb

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#1534172 17-Apr-2016 00:33

Geektastic: You've missed the point. The point is that many people of voting age today have no knowledge of the fact that until recently Britain stood firmly on her own two feet.

The UK was bankrupted by the second world war, it could not afford an empire where the members wanted their own rule.

I don't think you can put the UK industry decimation on Europe; it was more economic to ship coal from Australia than support the local pits, shipbuilding all went to the Japanese. North Sea Oil has been squandered, and an independent Scotland would be able to make a good claim on the remainder.

Britain standing on it's own feet....

Jarrow Marchers

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#1534218 17-Apr-2016 09:26

Geektastic:

Do you know how much it costs Britain to stay in?

About NZ$20 BILLION net of rebate every year since joining.

To an organisation whose auditors have refused to sign off the accounts - citing endless irregularities and improper use of funds - for no less than 19 years. You can read about that here

That's only about 0.5% of GDP.

UHD

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#1534220 17-Apr-2016 09:38

What are the arguments for leaving the EU? I don't really understand what downsides being a part of the EU creates.

MikeB4

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#1534222 17-Apr-2016 09:41

I think the cost to the UK will be greater if they leave compared to if they stay. The UK is still relevant on the World stage being in the EU especially in the financial sector but not relevant in many other. This is my opinion and is probably wrong but I think they should stay.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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PhantomNVD

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#1534223 17-Apr-2016 09:49

AKA "what are the downsides to keeping the flag, I really don't understand why we need a new one?" 😆

I think losing its autonomy has affected the country quite deeply, and the huge influx of compulsorily-accepted low socioeconomic (mostly Eastern European) immigrants has put a stress on its social services and low skill employment sectors.

Why else would they start charging Kiwi's that NHS tax if they never needed to before?

As you see in this thread, many older people still remember the Glory Days when Brittain ruled the world, and even the more recent days when it did very well on its service and monitory businesses. The independent £ has certainly saved them some of the monetary crisis the EU has faced, and I'm sure there is an argument for a similar stance politically...?

Anyway, like "the flag" both sides can argue veheminently (and coherently at times) that their side is correct ,and neither side can see the future, so either _could_ be right.

SJB

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#1534307 17-Apr-2016 10:47

For me personally the fact that GB controlled an empire some time in the past has no relevance to the EU question.

It's all about getting rid of the thousands and thousands of faceless bureaucrats in Brussels (or Strasbourg) that sit on top of the thousands of faceless bureaucrats that sit in Whitehall.

EU civil servants don't pay tax as such either. There is a sliding scale of deduction but it's simply paid back into the EU's coffers, not to the persons country of origin or residence.

There's also the issue of non-elected officials. For example the position of President of the Commission who is simply appointed by the heads of state.

The waste is simply immense and don't get me started on the Common Agricultural Policy or whatever it's called now. Even in 2013 it was using up nearly 40% of the EU budget.

And as a previous post points out there have been no signed off accounts for the last 19 years. No normal global business would be allowed to continue operating under those conditions.

SJB

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#1534309 17-Apr-2016 10:55

PhantomNVD: So, as a uk citizen with a current passport, how do I organise to get my vote counted, without having to leave NZ to do so?

Just Google 'EU Referendum overseas'. Plenty of info.

You must have left the UK within the last 15 years though. This is a requirement for voting in any UK referendum or election at the moment although the current government is proposing to scrap this rule in the near future.

DaveB

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#1534368 17-Apr-2016 13:09

Geektastic:

3) We do not much like a court of foreign judges over ruling our own courts and Parliament and telling us we must, for example, permit migrants convicted of rape and worse to remain in our country. It's akin to the Australian Supreme Court being able to overrule the courts in NZ.

I think it is this very fact that irks me most

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