IN or OUT? All on in the UK for the next 10 weeks.

Forums › Off topic › IN or OUT? All on in the UK for the next 10 weeks.

DaveB

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#195330 15-Apr-2016 21:36

As many of us ex Brits are aware, the gloves are off in the UK as they start a 10 week campaign to decide whether England stays in the EU. Now the thing that has disgusted me more than ever (and regardless of what I believe is the best thing for them to do) is the snivelling low that their politicians are allowed to go.

Fact 1: The government bows to public pressure and agrees to a referendum. In other words, they agree (in theory) to allow the public to have their say.

Fact 2: The government will only allow the use of public money and access to current information to fund those campaigns that support staying in the EU. In other words, any politician or organisation that promotes otherwise are on their own.

Sounds a bit one sided to me and I have to question, why not just go back to working for, and representing, the wishes of the people?

Regardless, Sky News (UK) and BBC 24 Home news will be my go to streaming options for the next 10 weeks.

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#1533763 15-Apr-2016 21:53

Sadly, they will - dollars to doughnuts - vote to remain.

Project Fear will triumph because so many voters now cannot actually recall a time when Britain stood firmly on her own feet and bestrode the world like a Colossus even though that was only 70 years ago. They simply cannot envision Britain running the world and most of them have carefully be 'educated' to ensure they really have little, if any, idea just how vast the Empire was and just how much we achieved in it.

Were I voting, I would be voting to leave. Europe offers Britain nothing it could not get by way of trade deals rather than membership (as other countries have proved) and I do not think that the Europeans would be so foolish as to behave like petulant children and refuse to do such deals, just because their favourite cash cow had decided to wake up and smell the roses!

DaveB

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#1533770 15-Apr-2016 22:01

Project Fear! Ain't that the truth - just watching Lord Darling's opening speech on SkyUK. Sad state of affairs.

Geektastic

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#1533782 15-Apr-2016 22:09

Project Fear in overdrive! This from the Daily Telegraph just now:

"Barack Obama to intervene in EU referendum with ‘very candid’ warning over Brexit"

Sorry, Barry - but if I want advice from the most ineffectual POTUS ever, I'll ask for it! I won't intervene in your election - just do us the same courtesy.

SJB

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#1533892 16-Apr-2016 11:07

We were conned by that s**t Heath when we joined. Most people thought we were joining a trade organization and if they had known the real outcome would not have said yes in the first place.

I would vote to leave but I'm afraid the vote will be to stay. Many people voting will have never known life outside of the EU and may be fearful of what might happen if the UK did leave, especially with the FUD spread by the stay campaign.

At the end of the day neither side knows what is going to happen in the future so anything they say is conjecture.

Mind you, when your PM says it's a good idea to do a certain thing doesn't it nearly always turn out that the opposite would have been better?

roobarb

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#1533895 16-Apr-2016 11:18

Geektastic:

They simply cannot envision Britain running the world and most of them have carefully be 'educated' to ensure they really have little, if any, idea just how vast the Empire was and just how much we achieved in it.

I don't know if you have been reading the papers, but the British Empire doesn't exist now.

If the UK left Europe, don't be surprised if Scotland finds a way to leave the UK and stay in Europe.

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#1533899 16-Apr-2016 11:24

If you find yourself following Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson and consider them sensible and serious, then there are medical facilities which can help you. Except you'd actually opt for Care-In-The-Community ....

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#1533906 16-Apr-2016 11:49

I am an old man with a UK passport.

I grew up in the dying days of the British Empire, in colonial New Guinea.

Here is a photograph of my father reviewing the native troops (he's the one in the pith helmet ):

(click to enlarge)

Even as a young child I thought that this was all faintly ridiculous.

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afe66

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#1533907 16-Apr-2016 11:57

I think they will vote to stay, but not in large enough numbers to put this issue to bed and so it will not be settled.

Similar to Scotland independence.

Linuxluver

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#1533967 16-Apr-2016 15:03

DaveB:

As many of us ex Brits are aware, the gloves are off in the UK as they start a 10 week campaign to decide whether England stays in the EU. Now the thing that has disgusted me more than ever (and regardless of what I believe is the best thing for them to do) is the snivelling low that their politicians are allowed to go.

Fact 1: The government bows to public pressure and agrees to a referendum. In other words, they agree (in theory) to allow the public to have their say.

Fact 2: The government will only allow the use of public money and access to current information to fund those campaigns that support staying in the EU. In other words, any politician or organisation that promotes otherwise are on their own.

Sounds a bit one sided to me and I have to question, why not just go back to working for, and representing, the wishes of the people?

Regardless, Sky News (UK) and BBC 24 Home news will be my go to streaming options for the next 10 weeks.

Stay in the EU.

A vote to leave would be proof to the world that Brits are essentially genetically incapable of compromise and cooperation for the good of everyone. Just a country full of grumpy old farts who moan about camels being horses designed by a committee (thus revealing they have never learned even the most basic skills of cooperation....and never been on a committee unless they were dictator).

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Linuxluver

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#1533968 16-Apr-2016 15:05

roobarb:

Geektastic:

They simply cannot envision Britain running the world and most of them have carefully be 'educated' to ensure they really have little, if any, idea just how vast the Empire was and just how much we achieved in it.

I don't know if you have been reading the papers, but the British Empire doesn't exist now.

If the UK left Europe, don't be surprised if Scotland finds a way to leave the UK and stay in Europe.

This. Yes.

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SJB

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#1534014 16-Apr-2016 16:04

Linuxluver:

A vote to leave would be proof to the world that Brits are essentially genetically incapable of compromise and cooperation for the good of everyone. Just a country full of grumpy old farts who moan about camels being horses designed by a committee (thus revealing they have never learned even the most basic skills of cooperation....and never been on a committee unless they were dictator).

Do you know anything about how the EU works? Everybody country compromises except the UK, Germany and France who do exactly as they please or opt out of legislation they don't like in the UK's case. If the EU worked for the common good Greece wouldn't be a basket case.

France even refused to compromise on where the headquarters went so every 6 months everybody ups sticks and moves from Brussels to Strasbourg or vice versa at huge cost to the poor old taxpayer.

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Linuxluver

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#1534024 16-Apr-2016 16:25

SJB:

Linuxluver:

A vote to leave would be proof to the world that Brits are essentially genetically incapable of compromise and cooperation for the good of everyone. Just a country full of grumpy old farts who moan about camels being horses designed by a committee (thus revealing they have never learned even the most basic skills of cooperation....and never been on a committee unless they were dictator).

Do you know anything about how the EU works? Everybody country compromises except the UK, Germany and France who do exactly as they please or opt out of legislation they don't like in the UK's case. If the EU worked for the common good Greece wouldn't be a basket case.

France even refused to compromise on where the headquarters went so every 6 months everybody ups sticks and moves from Brussels to Strasbourg or vice versa at huge cost to the poor old taxpayer.

It's not perfect, I agree. But better in than out.

Out means the UK would have a 24 country bloc next door over which the UK would have zero influence. If Scotland joins the EU, then it would be even worse.

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SJB

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#1534066 16-Apr-2016 17:20

Linuxluver:

SJB:

Linuxluver:

A vote to leave would be proof to the world that Brits are essentially genetically incapable of compromise and cooperation for the good of everyone. Just a country full of grumpy old farts who moan about camels being horses designed by a committee (thus revealing they have never learned even the most basic skills of cooperation....and never been on a committee unless they were dictator).

Do you know anything about how the EU works? Everybody country compromises except the UK, Germany and France who do exactly as they please or opt out of legislation they don't like in the UK's case. If the EU worked for the common good Greece wouldn't be a basket case.

France even refused to compromise on where the headquarters went so every 6 months everybody ups sticks and moves from Brussels to Strasbourg or vice versa at huge cost to the poor old taxpayer.

It's not perfect, I agree. But better in than out.

Out means the UK would have a 24 country bloc next door over which the UK would have zero influence. If Scotland joins the EU, then it would be even worse.

The UK does not have a huge amount of influence anyway since single country vetoes were abolished. Basically Germany runs the show and all the other countries know it.

Scotland would need another independence referendum and a yes vote to that before they could apply to join the EU again. There is no reason why they would even be given a referendum opportunity by the UK parliament.

I can never understand the Scottish attitude on this. Why would you want to swap from being part of the UK where at least you have a number of MP's and some say over what goes on to an organization where you are a minnow swimming around the edge of the pond with pretty well no voice.

One of the reasons for the rise of far right parties in Europe is that sections of the population have had enough of the EU. How large those numbers are is anybody's guess but if the UK votes to leave it can only give them a big boost. The elite of the EU must be praying for a 'stay' vote or it might just turn out to be the beginning of the end for the whole project.

roobarb

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#1534117 16-Apr-2016 18:53

Fog in channel, Continent isolated.

It is sad that today, if you see the Flag of St George flying from a house, or more likely draped from an upstairs window; you have found the house of either a football supporter or a racist bigot.

Geektastic

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#1534155 16-Apr-2016 22:39

SJB:

We were conned by that s**t Heath when we joined. Most people thought we were joining a trade organization and if they had known the real outcome would not have said yes in the first place.

I would vote to leave but I'm afraid the vote will be to stay. Many people voting will have never known life outside of the EU and may be fearful of what might happen if the UK did leave, especially with the FUD spread by the stay campaign.

At the end of the day neither side knows what is going to happen in the future so anything they say is conjecture.

Mind you, when your PM says it's a good idea to do a certain thing doesn't it nearly always turn out that the opposite would have been better?

My late father always said "I didn't vote for it - don't blame me!"

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