Trump as President, where from here for NZ and the US

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#1667810 11-Nov-2016 09:12

cynnicallemon:

You know, a lot of politicians around the world have two personalities at the moment. There's the pre Trump win "He's a rascist biggot and I wouldn't work with him" personality and the post win "We're now keen to work with Mr Trump even though we don't agree with him" type. I guess Donald isn't alone with that personality disorder. They have, including Mr Key, put Trump in the driving seat on any negotiations.

I posted this in the markets thread and it suits this as well

"Trump is a marketing expert and a good show man, he knows very well how to play a crowd. His victory is testament to that. He is also a businessman he knows what to do to make money. "

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#1667813 11-Nov-2016 09:21

tdgeek:

He wants American companies to come back. Take Apple. Hmm, lets pay even more for Apple gear as the costs now include US wages.

I heard a lot of this talk about paying more for American made items at the same time as some rant on about Trump being a racist etc...

I guess it's okay to buy a cheaper Apple product using what is essentially slave labour and being totally unethical whilst berating Trump.

Personally, I think people should ask why they are giving IT manufacturers a sh*t load of money for something that costs peanuts to produce in the first place.

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#1667819 11-Nov-2016 09:34

cynnicallemon:

tdgeek:

He wants American companies to come back. Take Apple. Hmm, lets pay even more for Apple gear as the costs now include US wages.

I heard a lot of this talk about paying more for American made items at the same time as some rant on about Trump being a racist etc...

I guess it's okay to buy a cheaper Apple product using what is essentially slave labour and being totally unethical whilst berating Trump.

Personally, I think people should ask why they are giving IT manufacturers a sh*t load of money for something that costs peanuts to produce in the first place.

I guess it's okay to buy a cheaper smartphone, computer, T Shirt, toaster etc, etc, etc, etc, etc product using what is essentially slave labour

So perhaps pull out of low wage countries? Thats an idea. Send them back a few centuries. Not every employer uses slave labour. The low wages are probably not low for these countries employees. Thats not slave labour. Thats labour at sound rates that are way cheaper then our rates

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#1667823 11-Nov-2016 09:35

cynnicallemon:

You know, a lot of politicians around the world have two personalities at the moment. There's the pre Trump win "He's a rascist biggot and I wouldn't work with him" personality and the post win "We're now keen to work with Mr Trump even though we don't agree with him" type. I guess Donald isn't alone with that personality disorder. They have, including Mr Key, put Trump in the driving seat on any negotiations.

I don't think that's two personalities. I think that is realistic attitudes to commercial and governmental realities.

Would you prefer John Key continue to criticise the leader of the free world openly? Are you prepared for the consequences of that ?

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#1667828 11-Nov-2016 09:49

networkn:

Would you prefer John Key continue to criticise the leader of the free world openly? Are you prepared for the consequences of that ?

Key will direct future criticism at US policy - not the man. There may be plenty of moments where that criticism is warranted. Don't forget that Key is also good at playing the crowd, and aware of risk if "Trumpism" sentiment spread to NZ, not just damage to him and his party, but for the future of NZ.

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#1667834 11-Nov-2016 10:00

tdgeek:

I guess it's okay to buy a cheaper smartphone, computer, T Shirt, toaster etc, etc, etc, etc, etc product using what is essentially slave labour

So perhaps pull out of low wage countries? Thats an idea. Send them back a few centuries. Not every employer uses slave labour. The low wages are probably not low for these countries employees. Thats not slave labour. Thats labour at sound rates that are way cheaper then our rates

The reality is that there is in general little choice but to buy Chinese made products now.

Perhaps NZ should adopt a minimum wage of $2 per hour in order to compete - NO! i hear people say, and rightly so.

If things are so hunky dory in Chinese manufacturing plants, why are there suicide nets on the outside of the buildings and in the stairwells at Apples plant?

Just trying to remember the last time I saw suicide nets inside and outside a factory in NZ... I'll get back to you when I remember one.

You are quite correct, wages aren't low. That's why they work 80+ hours a week and/or 18 days in a row.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/664296/secretive-iPhone-factory-safety-nets-stop-suicides-Apple-Petagron

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#1667835 11-Nov-2016 10:03

In the best interests of our country, we need to work wth Trump. Its not about Trump, its about us now. If his trade threats happen and adversely affect us, well thats too bad for us, we can't do a lot to manage that. We need to accept it, and look elsewhere for trade. Silently the relations will drop as exports t the US drop or become non viable. The US will mean less and less to us over time. Thats possibly what will happen, but it as to be about us. The US can worry about their being slowly moved away by many nations.

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#1667839 11-Nov-2016 10:11

cynnicallemon:

tdgeek:

I guess it's okay to buy a cheaper smartphone, computer, T Shirt, toaster etc, etc, etc, etc, etc product using what is essentially slave labour

So perhaps pull out of low wage countries? Thats an idea. Send them back a few centuries. Not every employer uses slave labour. The low wages are probably not low for these countries employees. Thats not slave labour. Thats labour at sound rates that are way cheaper then our rates

The reality is that there is in general little choice but to buy Chinese made products now.

Perhaps NZ should adopt a minimum wage of $2 per hour in order to compete - NO! i hear people say, and rightly so.

If things are so hunky dory in Chinese manufacturing plants, why are there suicide nets on the outside of the buildings and in the stairwells at Apples plant?

Just trying to remember the last time I saw suicide nets inside and outside a factory in NZ... I'll get back to you when I remember one.

You are quite correct, wages aren't low. That's why they work 80+ hours a week and/or 18 days in a row.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/664296/secretive-iPhone-factory-safety-nets-stop-suicides-Apple-Petagron

My wife visits China at least 6 times a year. Don't believe all the propaganda.

tdgeek

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#1667840 11-Nov-2016 10:12

cynnicallemon:

tdgeek:

I guess it's okay to buy a cheaper smartphone, computer, T Shirt, toaster etc, etc, etc, etc, etc product using what is essentially slave labour

So perhaps pull out of low wage countries? Thats an idea. Send them back a few centuries. Not every employer uses slave labour. The low wages are probably not low for these countries employees. Thats not slave labour. Thats labour at sound rates that are way cheaper then our rates

The reality is that there is in general little choice but to buy Chinese made products now.

Perhaps NZ should adopt a minimum wage of $2 per hour in order to compete - NO! i hear people say, and rightly so.

If things are so hunky dory in Chinese manufacturing plants, why are there suicide nets on the outside of the buildings and in the stairwells at Apples plant?

Just trying to remember the last time I saw suicide nets inside and outside a factory in NZ... I'll get back to you when I remember one.

You are quite correct, wages aren't low. That's why they work 80+ hours a week and/or 18 days in a row.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/664296/secretive-iPhone-factory-safety-nets-stop-suicides-Apple-Petagron

I don't believe Apple has their plant there. Yes there are issues. Are these caused by the west? Is it rampant everywhere that the west is involved?

There is a lot of choice to buy non Chinese products. Smartphones, less choice, some are made in S Korea. Nokia was out of China but has moved back. HTC is Taiwan. Some iPhones are Brazil.

other products such as toasters, tools, etc, etc, thats very easy

tdgeek

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#1667842 11-Nov-2016 10:16

MikeB4:

cynnicallemon:

tdgeek:

I guess it's okay to buy a cheaper smartphone, computer, T Shirt, toaster etc, etc, etc, etc, etc product using what is essentially slave labour

So perhaps pull out of low wage countries? Thats an idea. Send them back a few centuries. Not every employer uses slave labour. The low wages are probably not low for these countries employees. Thats not slave labour. Thats labour at sound rates that are way cheaper then our rates

The reality is that there is in general little choice but to buy Chinese made products now.

Perhaps NZ should adopt a minimum wage of $2 per hour in order to compete - NO! i hear people say, and rightly so.

If things are so hunky dory in Chinese manufacturing plants, why are there suicide nets on the outside of the buildings and in the stairwells at Apples plant?

Just trying to remember the last time I saw suicide nets inside and outside a factory in NZ... I'll get back to you when I remember one.

You are quite correct, wages aren't low. That's why they work 80+ hours a week and/or 18 days in a row.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/664296/secretive-iPhone-factory-safety-nets-stop-suicides-Apple-Petagron

My wife visits China at least 6 times a year. Don't believe all the propaganda.

Yep. And what is the quality like for Chinese buying Chinese goods? Pretty good. We were quoted $4500 for curtains here. Got them made in China, $1600 landed, freaking awesome, both as to finish and unreal quality. Doco on knock offs, a fancy dangle set of gold clubs, experts could not pick the difference. So it comes back to what westerners want from lower wage China, and they choose cheap.

networkn

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#1667843 11-Nov-2016 10:17

tdgeek:

In the best interests of our country, we need to work wth Trump. Its not about Trump, its about us now. If his trade threats happen and adversely affect us, well thats too bad for us, we can't do a lot to manage that. We need to accept it, and look elsewhere for trade. Silently the relations will drop as exports t the US drop or become non viable. The US will mean less and less to us over time. Thats possibly what will happen, but it as to be about us. The US can worry about their being slowly moved away by many nations.

I don't see us ever having a time where we are not reliant on the USA in a Major way. Even if most trade stopped, we still buy considerable quantities of products from the USA. Worst case they sanction us and we end up like Cuba!

Obviously, pretty unlikely.

cynnicallemon

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#1667844 11-Nov-2016 10:18

tdgeek:

In the best interests of our country, we need to work wth Trump. Its not about Trump, its about us now.

That's what Brexit showed everyone. If you have good products to sell then people will buy them no matter what.

Trade agreements are just a waste of time because a change of govt or a falling out could negate those and plummets the weaker countries into turmoil. Yes it can be great until the brown stuff hits the rotary blades.

"It's about us now" - It should be, and should have been, about us all the time. The only way to have a strong economy.

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#1667846 11-Nov-2016 10:23

cynnicallemon:

tdgeek:

In the best interests of our country, we need to work wth Trump. Its not about Trump, its about us now.

That's what Brexit showed everyone. If you have good products to sell then people will buy them no matter what.

Trade agreements are just a waste of time because a change of govt or a falling out could negate those and plummets the weaker countries into turmoil. Yes it can be great until the brown stuff hits the rotary blades.

"It's about us now" - It should be, and should have been, about us all the time. The only way to have a strong economy.

At the risk of sounding disrespectful, economies (and economics in general) aren't as simple as that.

Trade is a critical part of most countries (happy) survival, since the beginning of time.

tdgeek

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#1667847 11-Nov-2016 10:25

networkn:

tdgeek:

In the best interests of our country, we need to work wth Trump. Its not about Trump, its about us now. If his trade threats happen and adversely affect us, well thats too bad for us, we can't do a lot to manage that. We need to accept it, and look elsewhere for trade. Silently the relations will drop as exports t the US drop or become non viable. The US will mean less and less to us over time. Thats possibly what will happen, but it as to be about us. The US can worry about their being slowly moved away by many nations.

I don't see us ever having a time where we are not reliant on the USA in a Major way. Even if most trade stopped, we still buy considerable quantities of products from the USA. Worst case they sanction us and we end up like Cuba!

Obviously, pretty unlikely.

True, I was more along the lines of less and less over time. But exports, they arent big, I was surprised a little there. Beef is big percentage wise though.

But I can see the US being pushed aside by many countries as they harm imports. China, India, Europe become more important. Not pushed out, but aside.

I was looking for info on what we import from the US, found this quite ironic. Re pork, NZ is losing out to imported pork.

"Take labour rates for starters. Most imports come from North America, where Mexican farm workers are paid between US$7-8 an hour."

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#1667849 11-Nov-2016 10:29

I just saw the latest episode of South Park. They have been running a series parodying the American election. The thing is, this last episode already incorporates the election result and is at least partially based on it. How did they manage that so quickly? I know an episode normally only takes them a week, but they must have done this one in a day. Impressive. Or did they actually make two episodes, one for each result? I find it intriguing.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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