Can you help me with numeric psychometric tests?

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#2370453 8-Dec-2019 12:06

@BlinkyBill I didn't say it tells me how someone will perform in the role, I said it provides me some context that isn't immediately apparent in CVs and interviews. I'm aware of the stupidity in relying on psychometrics 100%. But as supplemental and supporting context it is still useful.

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#2370520 8-Dec-2019 13:46

Thanks so much for helping with the logic, I've done the test now, NONE of the questions were anything like the samples, but knowing the logic definitely helped, and I'm feeling a lot better now than before the test.

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#2370554 8-Dec-2019 17:01

BlinkyBill:
gehenna: As an employer these kinds of tests aren't my main decision making factor, but they are still useful depending on the role you're going for. They give me more context about some things that may not be immediately apparent in your CV or interview.

You should embrace the process, if the employer is using this testing then they want to be sure you're right for the role. Not only for them but also for your own sanity. Being in the wrong role is very difficult for all parties.

Knowing they do this in their recruitment process means they likely also have robust process and policies in other areas of how the business works, and that can only be a good thing.

I 100% disagree with this. Psychometric testing is a long way from best practice because it in no way indicates how well someone will do performing job functions. Many many enlightened employers are removing the requirement to do this sort of crap testing.

my feeling is out-of-date HR ‘professionals’ are the only ones still persisting with this sort of thing.

It's supposed to be used to work out whether people would work well in a particular team.

I did personality testing for that and the tester said 'never work in a team. You'll hate every minute of it.'

So true.

scuwp

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#2370570 8-Dec-2019 18:42

I thought the idea of psychometric testing was to get an idea of how someone thinks, what choices they make, and therefore how they behave/respond/react to assist the recruiter to understand the applicants personality and 'fit' for the role. Is there a "right" answer? Doesn't asking for help or preparing for the test defeat the very purpose of it?

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

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#2370586 8-Dec-2019 19:22

^Correct

Dratsab

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#2370591 8-Dec-2019 19:47

Practice questions shouldn't have been sent then...

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#2370703 8-Dec-2019 21:27

Dratsab:

Practice questions shouldn't have been sent then...

Agree, that seems very bizarre to me.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

frankv

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#2370847 9-Dec-2019 07:23

Getting back to how to do these tests:

Calculate a constant value to add to the first number that gives the first answer. Use the constant in the second pattern... if it works (it probably won't), do the same in the third pattern and you're done.

If it doesn't work, try the same, but multiply instead of add.

If that doesn't work, try an add plus multiply (your first two attempts will give you a rough idea of probable values).

If that doesn't work, try the above with squares of one or both of the original numbers.

Or you could try doing it by solving simultaneous equations:

aA + bB +c = C

aD + bE + c = F

where A,B,C,D,E,F are values given, and a,b,c are unknowns. Probably you can assume the unknowns are integers. maybe even positive integers.

Subtract equation 1 from equation 2:

a(A-D) + b(B-E) = (C-F)

(Can't remember the rest of the process, sorry).

frednz

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#2370850 9-Dec-2019 07:55

frankv:
Getting back to how to do these tests:

Calculate a constant value to add to the first number that gives the first answer. Use the constant in the second pattern... if it works (it probably won't), do the same in the third pattern and you're done.

If it doesn't work, try the same, but multiply instead of add.

If that doesn't work, try an add plus multiply (your first two attempts will give you a rough idea of probable values).

If that doesn't work, try the above with squares of one or both of the original numbers.

Or you could try doing it by solving simultaneous equations:

aA + bB +c = C

aD + bE + c = F

where A,B,C,D,E,F are values given, and a,b,c are unknowns. Probably you can assume the unknowns are integers. maybe even positive integers.

Subtract equation 1 from equation 2:

a(A-D) + b(B-E) = (C-F)

(Can't remember the rest of the process, sorry).

So you can spend many years and many thousands of dollars getting a qualification, but when you go for a job interview, employers like this one are determined to carry out their own irrelevant tests on how you can solve some pathetic arithmetical questions. So, in addition to the things that really matter, you need to practice seeing patterns in sets of numbers, because like anything, the more you practice something the better you get. So, what would happen if a potential employee refused to do these tests, should an employer say this person is unsuitable, even if highly qualified academically for the job?

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#2370857 9-Dec-2019 08:21

scuwp:

Dratsab:

Practice questions shouldn't have been sent then...

Agree, that seems very bizarre to me.

Thats because a) this type of testing has been discredited for these purposes and b) HR ‘professionals’ don’t know why they do what they do.

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#2370863 9-Dec-2019 08:56

frednz:

So you can spend many years and many thousands of dollars getting a qualification, but when you go for a job interview, employers like this one are determined to carry out their own irrelevant tests on how you can solve some pathetic arithmetical questions. So, in addition to the things that really matter, you need to practice seeing patterns in sets of numbers, because like anything, the more you practice something the better you get. So, what would happen if a potential employee refused to do these tests, should an employer say this person is unsuitable, even if highly qualified academically for the job?

Qualifications in IT have a half-life of 10 years or less, so my 40-years-ago 4-year BSc(Hons) in Comp Sc is at best worth 1/16 of what it was when new, so equivalent to less than 3 months training. And, whilst it got me to the employable stage, and I've used bits of that degree on and off over those 40 years, I learnt more about programming in my first year of work than all those 4 years. (OTOH, I saw a job ad for COBOL programmers the other day).

And job interviews themselves have been shown to be very poor predictors of how well a person does in the job. So some kind of objective psychometric test is possibly (if it's in the right domain) a useful improvement on just a job interview. In my case, for example, it shows an inability to remember 5th form algebra, which might (or might not) be relevant to the job.

Refusal to do the test might show a relevant anti-authoritarian attitude, or insufficient desperation in needing a job. Or it might show the ability to think outside the box, since for some employers solving the maths problem isn't the only way to get the job.

Conversely, doing all the practice to be able to do these irrelevant exercises quickly perhaps shows determination, and a willingness to follow instructions.

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#2370866 9-Dec-2019 09:03

frednz:

So you can spend many years and many thousands of dollars getting a qualification, but when you go for a job interview, employers like this one are determined to carry out their own irrelevant tests on how you can solve some pathetic arithmetical questions.

No, that's not what these are for. Have a look at my first post in this thread for how these are used.

One job I interviewed for a few years ago had not only these tests, but also a session with a psychologist. I wasn't looking forward to it since I'm not.....normal.....and psychologists generally have a field day with me. But again it wasn't the be-all-end-all of the process, it was just another piece of context for the employer that they don't get from interviews/cv's.

It didn't help that the psychologist and I didn't gel since he could only talk in rugby metaphors, and when I told him I have a sizeable disdain for rugby he didn't know how to relay info to me after that lol

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#2370867 9-Dec-2019 09:06

frednz: So, what would happen if a potential employee refused to do these tests, should an employer say this person is unsuitable, even if highly qualified academically for the job?

I've refused to do psychometric testing twice, and still got the jobs.

I do believe that they're 95% BS, and could list 101 reasons why they're a very bad idea to put much weight on as a guide to selecting candidates.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the possibility that the point of the example puzzle questions might not be to select candidates based on their ability to correctly answer them - but to weed out people who'd waste time on the job - trying to solve problems that don't matter.

Or maybe you'd not get the job - because you "overthought" something very simple.

gehenna

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#2370874 9-Dec-2019 09:15

Fred99:

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the possibility that the point of the example puzzle questions might not be to select candidates based on their ability to correctly answer them - but to weed out people who'd waste time on the job - trying to solve problems that don't matter.

That's exactly what I pointed out.

Fred99

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#2370884 9-Dec-2019 09:26

gehenna:

Fred99:

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the possibility that the point of the example puzzle questions might not be to select candidates based on their ability to correctly answer them - but to weed out people who'd waste time on the job - trying to solve problems that don't matter.

That's exactly what I pointed out.

Oops, I'm sorry about that, I didn't read the entire thread and jumped to a conclusion that nobody considered that. Please don't read too much into that as a reflection of my suitability as a candidate for the job as proof-reader for Stuff.

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