The Discrimination Thread

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#2686210 4-Apr-2021 08:34

Because it's shaped up almost the exact same way as the prison/ punishment thread that went up recently. It didn't take long to have both sides of the arguement laid out by posters.

'Let's use education and knowledge to change things and show them how what they are doing is unacceptable'

And

'Nope. They're the worst of the worst and nothing except extreme punishment and making them jobless and homeless will work.'

tdgeek

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#2686213 4-Apr-2021 08:39

Agree, some don't tolerate and some do, question answered.

MikeB4

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#2686214 4-Apr-2021 08:44

tdgeek:

Agree, some don't tolerate and some do, question answered.

That is tolerating racism. 'it happens. O dear, how sad, never move on'

I guess discussing racism and facing up to it is too hard and of course the game can never be interrupted. I call bullshit.

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#2686223 4-Apr-2021 08:51

MikeB4:

tdgeek:

Agree, some don't tolerate and some do, question answered.

That is tolerating racism. 'it happens. O dear, how sad, never move on'

I guess discussing racism and facing up to it is too hard and of course the game can never be interrupted. I call bullshit.

I was agreeing with the post about the outcome of this thread, not condoning it. Hence why I stated its been answered earlier on.

mrdrifter

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#2686224 4-Apr-2021 08:53

Mike, how about you try reading your previous posts without your current blinkered mindset. Your previous posts can be read as being exactly opposite to what you just said about actually discussing racism and reading them as written, they effectively say we can't help those people, we should just cast them out as they can't be rehabilitated.

You talk and act like this in many threads that raise multiple points of view and it makes the forum a worse place to be as a proper discussion can't be had when someone it just saying - 'Nope Nope Nope Nope, I'm right you're all wrong'

tdgeek

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#2686226 4-Apr-2021 09:04

mrdrifter: Mike, how about you try reading your previous posts without your current blinkered mindset. Your previous posts can be read as being exactly opposite to what you just said about actually discussing racism and reading them as written, they effectively say we can't help those people, we should just cast them out as they can't be rehabilitated.

You talk and act like this in many threads that raise multiple points of view and it makes the forum a worse place to be as a proper discussion can't be had when someone it just saying - 'Nope Nope Nope Nope, I'm right you're all wrong'

While I can't advise Mike's reasoning, to me it seems quite clear. You either have zero tolerance for discrimination or you don't. If you have a level of tolerance you are supporting it. The number of times this happens, that always gets the same weak response, is just normalising this behaviour.

Surely an opinion that is zero tolerance is allowed here? By saying its blinkered means that you are doing the same thing, you are right he is wrong. A zero tolerance to discrimination is hardly a radical position. If it was a typical position, this thread would not exist. But it does.

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#2686227 4-Apr-2021 09:15

Always fascinates me how the people who are so against racism and discrimination are the most intolerant of infringers.

I haven't seen said incident, I believe it involves rugby, so would rather watch grass grow, so I will probably be told not to comment, but gather that using a bad accent which is not your own is automatically racist and discriminatory. How so ? Who are these self appointed arbiters ?

I do not believe either should be tolerated or brushed under the carpet, but if this is actually, really such an incident, then people should be educated in such matters and allowed to learn. I'll never be a member of the hang 'em high brigade.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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mrdrifter

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#2686228 4-Apr-2021 09:16

tdgeek:

While I can't advise Mike's reasoning, to me it seems quite clear. You either have zero tolerance for discrimination or you don't. If you have a level of tolerance you are supporting it. The number of times this happens, that always gets the same weak response, is just normalising this behaviour.

I see that as why the discussion and education is so important! Discriminating against people based on things they can't change is downright stupid (hopefully we all agree on that), and education is clearly the key to fix this. Much like the discussions around people who end up in prison as they have no one to educate them or help them change things in their life from sometimes a very early age. Some countries successfully rehabilitate their criminals, but as soon as it relates to racism or discrimination the tone changes to - we might as well throw away the key.

I do agree a simple behind the scenes apology isn't really good enough when what was done was on a live broadcast for anyone to see, there should be some form of sanctions and the apology should be much wider. I just don't see how firing him will fix anything, wouldn't it be better to use him to help address the issue?

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#2686235 4-Apr-2021 09:35

@mrdrifter if you took the time to read my posts not only I this thread throughout the many years on GZ I have been very clear on my absolute intolerance to racism and always very open in my opposition. I will never back down and will never apologise. If you cannot accept that then that’s your issue not mine.

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#2686236 4-Apr-2021 09:40

I’m not sure exactly how I feel about this. I am utterly opposed to racism in every form, but until ‘racism’ is defined it is just another emotive buzzword label.

To me racism is anything that denigrates a group of people on the basis of their physical or cultural characteristics. The defining term is ‘denigrate’. Much humour is based on caricature, which is the exaggeration of such characteristics. Caricature can be ugly and hurtful, but it can also be amusing and good-natured. Caricature has a legitimate place in civilised society. It is an effective tool for deflating the pompous and self-important. It can be used with devastating effect to point out deficiencies in politicians and their standpoints. It is a good way of bringing people down to earth.

Much of the humour in The Simpsons is based on caricature. Homer is a prejudiced moron. Marge is a doormat. The mayor is corrupt and the police chief incompetent. All of the characters are exaggerated stereotypes.

I was personally disappointed when one of the (white) voice actors said he would no longer do the Indian character Apu. Apparently Indian children were being bullied about this. I find that extremely unfortunate. I greatly enjoyed the Apu character and it certainly did not make me think less of Indian people.

Another ‘racist’ stereotype in The Simpsons is Scottish Willie, also with a blatantly fake accent. Are Scots insulted by this or do they laugh along? The Dutch and Belgians have a long tradition of making fun of each other’s supposed national characteristics. Neither side takes these kinds of jokes seriously.

If some backward Neanderthals cannot distinguish between fantasy and reality and see this kind of thing as a license to bully and discriminate against others, that is on them. However, I am not Indian so I can’t know how that feels to someone who is. I am not Scottish either and I am certainly not Japanese. I try not to pre-judge anyone based on their appearance or ethnic identity. I find it sad that those who do make the world a less enjoyable place for all of us.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#2686242 4-Apr-2021 09:53

MikeB4: Any toleration of racism will allow the disease to fester and grow.

Nothing is ever so black and white. There are degrees of racism from mild fun to serious life threatening. We are not all equally endowed with common sense. Racism can never be stamped out entirely, it will only become hidden, festering inside until it explodes in evil.

Some forms are innocent and without malice or come from someone with low intelligence. Harsh life changing punishment like losing a job affecting an entire family or public outing and humiliation for a more minor lapse of judgement serves no purpose. I’d rather see the 'punishment' to be a month spent amongst an ethnic group so as to understand that the food and language may be different but the basics like the protection of family and the day to day problems of life are similar no matter who you are and where you come from. An inclusive response like this would create a better understanding and possibly new friendships.

I think it’s more important to teach kids in schools from a young age to accept we are all different and to equally celebrate these differences with an emphasis on kindness to one another.

tdgeek

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#2686243 4-Apr-2021 10:00

mrdrifter:

I see that as why the discussion and education is so important! Discriminating against people based on things they can't change is downright stupid (hopefully we all agree on that), and education is clearly the key to fix this. Much like the discussions around people who end up in prison as they have no one to educate them or help them change things in their life from sometimes a very early age. Some countries successfully rehabilitate their criminals, but as soon as it relates to racism or discrimination the tone changes to - we might as well throw away the key.

I do agree a simple behind the scenes apology isn't really good enough when what was done was on a live broadcast for anyone to see, there should be some form of sanctions and the apology should be much wider. I just don't see how firing him will fix anything, wouldn't it be better to use him to help address the issue?

How many of us are on TV? Yet we see regular racist or homophobic slurs, tip of the iceberg. Can you rehabilitate an adult who has a discriminatory bend? Maybe, but its likely to be done by the PR person. Yes, 100% its on education, at school, to help the future. In the meantime get rid of those that openly display their bias , in the media, where any person of any base intelligence would keep their views to themselves, but they continue to slip out. It was a mistake, yes that they get caught. Maybe ask the recipients of whatever was done/said, what they think.

Im just a little surprised that some have a tolerant view, thats ok, anyone can have their opinion. But anyone who has a zero tolerance view gets castigated. I dont believe anyone that has zero tolerance to racism, homopobism, mysogyny, sexual identity, etc, etc, etc, should be seen as outliers, or radical, or blinkered. Thats a worry and a problem.

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#2686246 4-Apr-2021 10:06

Eva888:
MikeB4: Any toleration of racism will allow the disease to fester and grow.

Nothing is ever so black and white. There are degrees of racism from mild fun to serious life threatening. We are not all equally endowed with common sense. Racism can never be stamped out entirely, it will only become hidden, festering inside until it explodes in evil.

Some forms are innocent and without malice or come from someone with low intelligence. Harsh life changing punishment like losing a job affecting an entire family or public outing and humiliation for a more minor lapse of judgement serves no purpose. I’d rather see the 'punishment' to be a month spent amongst an ethnic group so as to understand that the food and language may be different but the basics like the protection of family and the day to day problems of life are similar no matter who you are and where you come from. An inclusive response like this would create a better understanding and possibly new friendships.

I think it’s more important to teach kids in schools from a young age to accept we are all different and to equally celebrate these differences with an emphasis on kindness to one another.

Its better to be hidden, and the perpetrators know better than to expose their unequal beliefs. Then, young kids, schoolchildren, young adults as well as their families and friends don't get subjected to abuse or read about the abuse thats laughed off with an apology that they got caught. Look at it from the minority view, than whatever one person, as in this case, it was levelled at. In their lives, its a constant, not a random GZ thread.

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#2686247 4-Apr-2021 10:16

IMHO people who have zero tolerance of racism don't get castigated, its the punishment that so often seems to go along with it that gets attacked. Some things are racist, some are open to interpretation, some see racism that isn't there, some don't see it where it is. Nowadays people jump on things like there's no tomorrow, sometimes its justified, sometimes it isn't. I don't know where the balance is but there does need to be some (balance).

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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#2686250 4-Apr-2021 10:21

My last contribution. Playing a character in the Simpsons, Shakespeare, Star Trek et al is way different to an idiot using racial stereotyping to imitate the voice of the subject is racist. Please see reaction of the race relations conciliator

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