Concert tickets: “In Demand” prices, “dynamic pricing”

Forums › Off topic › Concert tickets: “In Demand” prices, “dynamic pricing”

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tripper1000

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#2999126 21-Nov-2022 11:15

[Devils Advocate]

I wouldn't be willing to pay as much to see <insert your favourite artist> as you because I'm not as much or a fan as you - nothing unfair about that(?). Within the ranks of the fans there are people willing to pay more than you - obviously the price they are willing to pay indicates they are are bigger fans than you, just as the price I am willing to pay indicates I am less of a fan than you.

[/Devils Advocate]

When demand exceeds supply, it becomes an internet lottery to see who goes, and that brings out the profit-seeking-scalpers (aka demand pricers) which diminish your odds even more. With "dynamic" prices, customers start self regulating. I think we can all agree that it is fairer that the artist reaps the additional profits than some scalping speculator.

If artists genuinely think otherwise (and most don't demonstrate this with actions), they can always announce additional shows, so demand pricing isn't activated and scalpers are left high & dry (like U2 on their last Akl shows - I laughed at the scalpers desperately trying to flog off tickets outside the gates).

The beauty of the loss of record profits is that artist have more motivation than ever to put on as many shows as they can. Demand pricing as a free-market way for the artist to balance work to profit ratios.

kingdragonfly

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#3007978 10-Dec-2022 08:24

Ticketmaster: If Wilson Parking has an evil twin

NPR: Dozens of Taylor Swift fans sue Ticketmaster in the wake of its ticket sale fiasco

Taylor Swift fans are dressing for revenge — or at least legal damages. More than two dozen disappointed Swifties have filed a class-action lawsuit accusing Ticketmaster and its parent company, Live Nation, of fraud, misrepresentation and antitrust violations over its botched Eras Tour ticket sale.

Lawyers for the 26 plaintiffs, who live in 13 states across the U.S., filed the complaint in L.A. County Superior Court on Friday. It alleges that the ticketing platform has a monopoly on primary and secondary markets and accuses it of engaging in fraudulent practices and various antitrust violations, including price discrimination and price fixing.

"Defendant's anticompetitive behavior has substantially harmed and will continue to substantially harm Taylor Swift fans, as well as competition in the ticket sales marker and the Secondary Ticket Services Market," it reads.

It seeks US $2,500 (NZD $3,900) for every violation of California's Unfair Competition Law, which prohibits false advertising and illegal business practices.
...

Kyanar

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#3009466 13-Dec-2022 13:06

nzkc:

This had me thinking; when does this become discriminating based on age? But then life insurance companies charge higher premiums as you age and that is accepted as entirely logical. 🤔

Disclaimer: I am not a user of Tinder (or any dating apps)

Insurers have a legal exemption from age discrimination legislation provided the discrimination is based on actuarial data. Tinder does not, so it would be arguable that they may be breaking the law. Someone should file a complaint with the relevant human rights agency and see if that does hold true.

sir1963

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#3009538 13-Dec-2022 16:32

tripper1000:

[Devils Advocate]

I wouldn't be willing to pay as much to see <insert your favourite artist> as you because I'm not as much or a fan as you - nothing unfair about that(?). Within the ranks of the fans there are people willing to pay more than you - obviously the price they are willing to pay indicates they are are bigger fans than you, just as the price I am willing to pay indicates I am less of a fan than you.

[/Devils Advocate]

When demand exceeds supply, it becomes an internet lottery to see who goes, and that brings out the profit-seeking-scalpers (aka demand pricers) which diminish your odds even more. With "dynamic" prices, customers start self regulating. I think we can all agree that it is fairer that the artist reaps the additional profits than some scalping speculator.

If artists genuinely think otherwise (and most don't demonstrate this with actions), they can always announce additional shows, so demand pricing isn't activated and scalpers are left high & dry (like U2 on their last Akl shows - I laughed at the scalpers desperately trying to flog off tickets outside the gates).

The beauty of the loss of record profits is that artist have more motivation than ever to put on as many shows as they can. Demand pricing as a free-market way for the artist to balance work to profit ratios.

I buy th CDs, they are cheaper, better quality, I have them for a life time, and can be played pretty much everywhere as they end up on my phone. Plus I get to chose the tracks I want to listen to.

Oh, and I also have a strong objection to being ripped off.

Last time I went to a concert was Elton John in Vegas.

MikeAqua

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#3009541 13-Dec-2022 16:35

Geektastic: Pretty much everything from taxi fares to Air B&B rentals is the same. I’ve even read of sites that charge more if you visit them using Apple devices because they assume you have more money.

I've encountered higher pricing for flights and accommodation on mobile apps vs websites from desktop.

Mike

Kookoo

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#3009561 13-Dec-2022 17:20

Ticketmaster deserve all the hate they get both for the awful customer experience (what braindead monkey developed that app?!) and for the extra fees. However, if dynamic pricing kills off scalpers - I'm all for it. It then becomes less of a competition of who can click the fastest, and more of "who wants to the pay the most", with a trail that evens out over time I'd assume.

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kingdragonfly

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#3009643 13-Dec-2022 20:38

Even the Roman empire knew you can't just sell tickets to the rich, lest the poor revolt: Bread and circuses

kingdragonfly

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#3028593 28-Jan-2023 21:17

Ticketmaster also operates out of New Zealand.

NPR: The US Senate's Ticketmaster hearing featured plenty of Taylor Swift puns and protesters

The Senate Judiciary Committee held its much-anticipated hearing into Live Nation and the lack of competition in the ticketing industry on Tuesday.
...
During the hearing, several lawmakers credited the Swift debacle — and her vocal fanbase — with putting Ticketmaster back in the spotlight, though acknowledged that the problem is much bigger than any one artist.

Critics long have accused Ticketmaster of being a monopoly, especially after its controversial merger with Live Nation (now its parent company) in 2010. But outrage reached a new pitch after its botched presale process for Swift's The Eras Tour in November, when long wait times, exorbitant fees and website outages left thousands of fans frustrated and empty-handed.

After years of complaints about high fees, murky resale practices and other issues, the incident seemed to galvanize fans and lawmakers alike. Attorneys general of several states launched consumer protection investigations, many Democratic lawmakers called for Ticketmaster to be broken up and dozens of Swift fans sued the company for fraud and antitrust violations.
...

kingdragonfly

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#3028594 28-Jan-2023 21:23

NZ Herald, 2018: Ticketmaster NZ profit soars 143% as sales growth outpaces costs

Ticketmaster New Zealand, which is owned by the world's biggest concert promoter Live Nation Entertainment, posted a 143 percent jump in profit in 2017 as sales ran faster than expenses.

...Live Nation NZ acquired a majority stake in Auckland's 12,000 capacity Spark Arena in 2016...

...As well as ticket sales and concert promotions, Ticketmaster New Zealand operates a ticket resale business.

in 2018, it held cash and equivalents of $75.0 million

In 2017 it was $17.5 million
...

kingdragonfly

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#3028600 28-Jan-2023 21:38

Talking order

artist telling their experience with Ticketmaster, and who sets ticket prices
LiveNation who owns Ticketmaster, and often the venue (such as Barclays Center in the US, and Auckland's Spark Arena)
Seatgeek (NYT: Barclays Center Drops New Ticket Vendor GeekSeat for Its Old One: Ticketmaster)

Watch lawmaker grill Live Nation CFO on who sets ticket prices

CNN

kingdragonfly

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#3040895 23-Feb-2023 15:40

A reminder: Ticketmaster profits went up in the last reported year by 143%. And like in the US, the parent company owns, Live Nation NZ, has a majority stake in Auckland's Spark Arena.

Netherlands Times: More calls to investigate Ticketmaster for unfair competition in the Netherlands

Parliamentary parties and multiple economists an investigation of Ticketmaster for unfair competition.

The call for an investigation stems from the controversy around the resale of Lowlands tickets. Lowlands will only allow the resale of tickets through Ticketmaster - excluding competitors like Ticketswap.

...The platform also charges service costs twice. As a result, Lowlands tickets, which originally cost 300 euros each, sell on Ticketmaster for over 400 euros each. And they can be bought nowhere else. Lowlands sold out within 15 minutes of ticket sales opening on February 4th.

The matter is even more sensitive because both Ticketmaster and Lowlands’ organizer, MOJO, fall under the same American company - Live Nation. The United States authorities are already investigating Live nation for disrupting the free market.

Economists want the ACM to do the same.

“It seems that Ticketmaster is abusing a monopoly position in the ticket sales market by excluding competitors like Ticketswap and charging extortionate prices, By closing the second-hand market to competitors, Ticketmaster is free to ask what they want. I am increasingly convinced that Ticketswap can make this a hard case at the ACM.”
...

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kingdragonfly

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#3073152 6-May-2023 15:31

Some rough language

The Lie That's Destroying the Economy

Adam Conover

This one story explains why everything from Taylor Swift to Tyson Chicken is so f-ed up.

kingdragonfly

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#3095151 26-Jun-2023 17:25

About ticket sales to Elton John at Glastonbury, prices weren't so bad in part to a 1.5% booking fee, less than many credit card fees in NZ.

National World: Is Glastonbury 2023 sold out?
...
In a bid to prevent scalpers from snatching up all the tickets for this year’s festival, fans had to pre-register before the general sale began. There was also a price increase, with standard tickets for the 2023 festival costing £335 plus a £5 booking fee. In comparison, the last event in summer 2022 were price £280.

Tickets for Glastonbury 2023 went on sale in November and sold out at a record speed. On Thursday 4 November it took just 23 minutes for coach and ticket packages to sell out, with standard sale tickets selling out in just 62 minutes.
...

kingdragonfly

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#3095157 26-Jun-2023 17:37

In case you're wondering about anti-scalping laws in New Zealand, Reselling or trading a ticket for a value greater than its original sale price, either in person or online, is an offence, punishable by a fine of up to $5000
but
only for major sporting events,like Fifa football tournaments, and World Rugby tournaments, never for music events.

The Hill: Anti-scalping ‘Taylor Swift law’ proposed in Brazil

An anti-scalping bill nicknamed the “Taylor Swift law” is being proposed in Brazil, where the singer-songwriter is set to bring her Eras Tour for five concerts later this year.

“I will not back down until the ‘Taylor Swift Law’ is passed and makes it a crime for ticket scalpers to sell tickets in Brazil!” Simone Marquetto, who represents São Paulo in the Brazilian Chamber of Deputies, said in a translated tweet.
...
Scalpers online and in-person reportedly plagued fans attempting to buy tickets to the Brazil dates, with some fans even facing threats of violence from from the scalpers, according to the news outlet The Brazilian Report.

Marquetto’s Lei Taylor Swift, or the Taylor Swift law, would reportedly increase the sentencing and fines for scalping, which is already a crime in the country. NBC News reports scalpers could get hit with four years in prison and fees as much as 100 times the original ticket price under the would-be law.
...

everettpsycho

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#3095185 26-Jun-2023 21:08

kingdragonfly: About ticket sales to Elton John at Glastonbury, prices weren't so bad in part to a 1.5% booking fee, less than many credit card fees in NZ.

National World: Is Glastonbury 2023 sold out?
...
In a bid to prevent scalpers from snatching up all the tickets for this year’s festival, fans had to pre-register before the general sale began. There was also a price increase, with standard tickets for the 2023 festival costing £335 plus a £5 booking fee. In comparison, the last event in summer 2022 were price £280.

Tickets for Glastonbury 2023 went on sale in November and sold out at a record speed. On Thursday 4 November it took just 23 minutes for coach and ticket packages to sell out, with standard sale tickets selling out in just 62 minutes.
...

Glastonbury has upped it's prices but it's not dynamic pricing. But having gone a few times since the pre registration was introduced I think it's a fantastic system for a massively over subscribed event. Everyone who buys tickets had to plan ahead and register and put the effort in and it eliminates scalping entirely. It does allow those who put down the deposit to get that money back if they don't buy a full ticket in April. It also means you can buy in groups of 6 so you don't end up being billy no mates because others didn't manage to get through.

All that said the buying the tickets is total chaos, they use a company called seetickets and every big show they handle their site just crashes and limps through. But experience taught me how to navigate the crash and persistence can prevail. I've managed to get tickets from that site for almost everything I ever wanted to attend despite the crashes including a few Glastonburys. I understand how upset people get when they couldn't reach the order page but so many give up after 5 minutes and miss their shot.

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