IPCC climate report

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#2191924 6-Mar-2019 09:06

tdgeek:

We complain about taxes, life, wars, global crises. A day will come when the only news that is relevant is the daily crises with food, famine, we need another desalination plant, as we battle financially and physically with what a +3 C world is dealing to us. Its like living in a tropical fish tank and the owner took off for a year

And all the fish are fighting non-stop over everything of value that's left.

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#2191943 6-Mar-2019 09:40

SaltyNZ:

tdgeek:

We complain about taxes, life, wars, global crises. A day will come when the only news that is relevant is the daily crises with food, famine, we need another desalination plant, as we battle financially and physically with what a +3 C world is dealing to us. Its like living in a tropical fish tank and the owner took off for a year

And all the fish are fighting non-stop over everything of value that's left.

Yep, many things will happen. Oxygen depletes as water warms. Then they die and decay, adding toxins. Eventually stagnant if water flow reduces significantly. The Great Water Tunnel slows as the temperature variance is less degrees, so nutrients don't flow as well. Fresh water is rare, right now Lake Mead that feeds some of California is becoming a problem as the underground aquifers dry up. Need desalination plants on the seashore

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#2192096 6-Mar-2019 12:33

I dont deny climate change, I am opposed to working kiwis being taxed to death to fund the types of policies people think will make a difference.

Taxes in this case are needed because the price of goods or services does not reflect the true cost of providing them. The person buying something needs to pay not only the cost of manufacturing the product, but also the cost of disposing of it, and the cost of remediating environmental damage done along the way. Otherwise people would use resources inefficiently. Taxes are needed because people and corporations won't take responsibility for their decisions and voluntarily pay their share for the destruction that they are causing. If working kiwis are being taxed to death, it is because they are doing stuff that will cause the deaths of future working kiwis.

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#2192100 6-Mar-2019 12:36

frankv:

I dont deny climate change, I am opposed to working kiwis being taxed to death to fund the types of policies people think will make a difference.

If working kiwis are being taxed to death, it is because they are doing stuff that will cause the deaths of future working kiwis.

You're right. Too bad food, shelter and power all need to be paid for, or else I could stop driving to work and do my part. Clearly, however, such practicalities are just me being selfish and I deserve to be 'taxed to death' instead.

This sort of hysteria and disconnect from the fact people struggle to make ends meet already is why people tune out why climate zealots start effectively advocating for a Khmer Rouge-style Day Zero society.

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#2192136 6-Mar-2019 12:53

I dont know where taxed to death comes from. NZ and most countries don't do a lot. China and India have increased the green arable area a HUGE amount. Thats not for climate change though. Taxed to death will occur in the future when survival against a number of factors that will directly affect us will occur

Is supporting climate change being a zealot?

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#2192147 6-Mar-2019 13:03

tdgeek:

Is supporting climate change being a zealot?

No, I think 'not wanting my children to be forced to participate in a live action Mad Max role play' makes you a zealot. At least, that's the vibe I'm getting from the climate change deniers / why should I do anything posters.

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#2192152 6-Mar-2019 13:11

SaltyNZ:

tdgeek:

Is supporting climate change being a zealot?

No, I think 'not wanting my children to be forced to participate in a live action Mad Max role play' makes you a zealot. At least, that's the vibe I'm getting from the climate change deniers / why should I do anything posters.

I can understand if anyone does not believe in human caused climate change. But not that those who accept CC but dont want to do anything, unless they feel its very much exaggerated.

GV27

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#2192156 6-Mar-2019 13:13

"Let them eat Teslas" it is then.

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#2192182 6-Mar-2019 13:50

GV27:

"Let them eat Teslas" it is then.

Yes, you can wash them down with a nice saute pelican.

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#2192186 6-Mar-2019 13:57

SaltyNZ:

GV27:

"Let them eat Teslas" it is then.

Yes, you can wash them down with a nice saute pelican.

Cool. So the real point about the costs of living loaded onto people who already struggle in the name of Green reform is just dismissed by Greenpeace-style pictures of animals in oil slicks, like it's actually some sort of argument?

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#2192188 6-Mar-2019 14:04

GV27:

Cool. So the real point about the costs of living loaded onto people who already struggle in the name of Green reform is just dismissed by Greenpeace-style pictures of animals in oil slicks, like it's actually some sort of argument?

Right now, what major cost of living is loaded onto everyone for climate change? This country does stuff all, so it can't be much.

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#2192190 6-Mar-2019 14:04

GV27:

Cool. So the real point about the costs of living loaded onto people who already struggle in the name of Green reform is just dismissed by Greenpeace-style pictures of animals in oil slicks, like it's actually some sort of argument?

It is an argument. It's an argument that is irrefutable even if you deny climate change. Fossil fuels kill. They kill plants, they kill fish, they kill animals. They kill people too. Those people who are struggling with high costs of living are also being poisoned. Those people who are already struggling with high costs of living are especially likely to be poisoned by pollution simply because the cheapest places to live are the ones that rich people don't want to live in because they are polluted.

"I'm poor" is not a reason to ignore climate change. "I'm poor" is a reason to panic about it. The rich certainly won't be the first ones to suffer.

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#2192200 6-Mar-2019 14:09

GV27:

frankv:

I dont deny climate change, I am opposed to working kiwis being taxed to death to fund the types of policies people think will make a difference.

If working kiwis are being taxed to death, it is because they are doing stuff that will cause the deaths of future working kiwis.

You're right. Too bad food, shelter and power all need to be paid for, or else I could stop driving to work and do my part. Clearly, however, such practicalities are just me being selfish and I deserve to be 'taxed to death' instead.

This sort of hysteria and disconnect from the fact people struggle to make ends meet already is why people tune out why climate zealots start effectively advocating for a Khmer Rouge-style Day Zero society.

Arguing that we *must* keep on destroying our environment to save ourselves from starvation (when in fact we aren't starving) just doesn't cut it.

And you can keep your Khmer Rouge Day Zero strawman... no-one is advocating that.

The hysteria in fact started with the person who claimed that "working kiwis [are] being taxed to death"; hyperbolic nonsense. Then blamed that on money is being used for environmental purposes. The correct way to tackle over-taxation of a sector is by tax reform. Unfortunately, most of our wealth it is going to the top 1%, who don't pay their share of tax, if they pay any. Fix that and the standard of living of the 99% goes up, *and* there is more than enough to pay for climate change intervention.

GV27

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#2192201 6-Mar-2019 14:10

SaltyNZ:

"I'm poor" is not a reason to ignore climate change. "I'm poor" is a reason to panic about it. The rich certainly won't be the first ones to suffer.

That isn't what I've said, at any point. It seems to be perfectly fine for people to just say "people who end up paying too much tax should stop doing things that harm others" without a shred of thought given for people outside your personal bubble, lifestyle flexibility or privilege; but to point this out is to be painted as a "denier" or a "I shouldn't have to do anything" even if you haven't said that at all.

But fair is fair. I guess this means I'm able to paint anyone who disregards the impact of climate reform on lower-income earners as just hating poor people.

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#2192225 6-Mar-2019 14:41

GV27:

That seems to have kicked off a silly argument. What taxes are you actually talking about in practice?

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