Noel Leeming's "Price Match"

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#1458056 28-Dec-2015 10:14

surfisup1000: I asked jbhifi to pricematch with pbtech and they said no because pbtech are parallel importers.

I got the impression that JB Hifi price matches only against noel leeming/HN/DSE.

Are PBtech parallel importers? For some things maybe?

PBtech source a lot of their product locally but a large chunk incl some Apple product is Parallel imported.
Qnap is another one that they have parallel imported.

I know enough to be dangerous

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#1458065 28-Dec-2015 11:23

My crappy experience was going in to a retailer on boxing day, seeing a product I wanted, but it was large and I was on a bike so I asked whether the special price was boxing day only, or all week. I was told all week, and the guy printed a quote receipt and attached his card to it, and was told to present the card when I come in to get it so he gets his commission.

I went in the next day, and the price had gone up substantially, and was told by the same guy it was boxing day only deal and they wouldn't honour the price or the quote. Obviously had I known that I would have paid that day, and gone home and got my car to collect, but with him saying all week and printing a receipt I thought it was safe to leave it until the next day when it was convenient to me.

He tried to negotiate a price, but I politely declined, and went and snitched to another staff member who got the manager involved, who then honoured the deal, so happy ending I guess. Although the guy called me "cheeky" and I was made to feel like it was my fault so I won't be going back again.

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#1458084 28-Dec-2015 12:17

Geese: My crappy experience was going in to a retailer on boxing day, seeing a product I wanted, but it was large and I was on a bike so I asked whether the special price was boxing day only, or all week. I was told all week, and the guy printed a quote receipt and attached his card to it, and was told to present the card when I come in to get it so he gets his commission.

I went in the next day, and the price had gone up substantially, and was told by the same guy it was boxing day only deal and they wouldn't honour the price or the quote. Obviously had I known that I would have paid that day, and gone home and got my car to collect, but with him saying all week and printing a receipt I thought it was safe to leave it until the next day when it was convenient to me.

He tried to negotiate a price, but I politely declined, and went and snitched to another staff member who got the manager involved, who then honoured the deal, so happy ending I guess. Although the guy called me "cheeky" and I was made to feel like it was my fault so I won't be going back again.

He probably said cheeky because he no longer got his commission? haha

Geektastic

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#1458136 28-Dec-2015 14:29

simon14: I asked Noel Leeming to price match some Logitech speaks a few months ago.

They were not happy about it at all and started trying to make excuses. Luckily i had the T'c and C's up on my phone and could counter each rejection by referring to them.

Eventually, they reluctantly gave in and matched the price.

I understand they don't want to make a loss, but they are getting the benefits out of advertising "price match" so they need to suck it up when customers actually take them up on the offer OR don't offer to match prices! Simple.

What is odd is that you can look on for example the GZ comparison tool and see the spread of pricing for an item.

So can the shops.

Why do they not simply do that and see how low the lowest is and then they won't need to be surprised when people come in wanting that price? Sometimes the differences are insane.

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#1458144 28-Dec-2015 15:39

Geektastic:
simon14: I asked Noel Leeming to price match some Logitech speaks a few months ago.

They were not happy about it at all and started trying to make excuses. Luckily i had the T'c and C's up on my phone and could counter each rejection by referring to them.

Eventually, they reluctantly gave in and matched the price.

I understand they don't want to make a loss, but they are getting the benefits out of advertising "price match" so they need to suck it up when customers actually take them up on the offer OR don't offer to match prices! Simple.

What is odd is that you can look on for example the GZ comparison tool and see the spread of pricing for an item.

So can the shops.

Why do they not simply do that and see how low the lowest is and then they won't need to be surprised when people come in wanting that price? Sometimes the differences are insane.

It is really a marketing gimmick that they hope people don't use. They did a story on these price matching guarantees on radio NZ a few years ago, and pointed out all the things businesses use to get out of them, and they are rarely used. It mainly just gives buyers the impression that the prices are already some of the lowest available.

Dunnersfella

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#1458174 28-Dec-2015 18:08

dudalemon: I bring this up because, here was my experience:

Found a vacuum cleaner that was on the shelf. After looking on price spy i found that SmithCity sold the same vacuum for $200 less. I asked him to do a price match and he said "I would be making a $20 loss on this if i sold it to you" He tried to (weakly) justify that SmithCity is not a physical store in Auckland, which i told him that their T&C doesn't specify city.

After reluctantly agreeing to the sale he told me that they don't have any in stock (who has an item on display if none of the noel leemings stock it?)

So he "ordered" one from the supplier and said i will get a call in the next 5 working days. After 2 weeks (8-10 working days). I called them and they told me that the supplier doesn't stock them anymore either and for me to go back to the store to do a refund.
(again. why are they displaying an item if it's discontinued even at their supplier?)

From what I can see, Noel's list every TV (from the brands they stock) imported into NZ on their website...
Even if the product is yet to come to market - in order to get forward orders etc.
Even if they choose not to carry the product, they will still be able to order the product during one of their (almost weekly) 20% off sales.
This way they don't have the risk of carrying the stock, but get the sales (all-be-it at what is often a low margin).

In regards to the vacuum... clearly they had one on the shelf. Why didn't you get that one?

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#1458186 28-Dec-2015 18:20

In regards to the vacuum... clearly they had one on the shelf. Why didn't you get that one?

He did offer that one, or to order a new one.

The one on the shelf had been heavily used

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#1458187 28-Dec-2015 18:26

Geektastic: I love how no one embraces a simple, straightforward and honest approach on the assumption that they will immediately become the retailer of choice...!

American retailers and manufacturers build huge businesses by having straightforward "if it breaks, we'll fix it - forever" warranties, "If you can get it cheaper elsewhere, we'll beat it" pricing and so on. People choose those businesses because of that.

They don't usually fill them with caveats, conditions and tortuous requirements like here.

Must be a character thing or something I suppose.

More than price, I can guarantee that the person who says "We'll fix it, no hassle, no charge, for all the time you own it" will get my business every time over competitors that don't.

It seems that offering the legal minimum (and then often being difficult about it) rather than a generous voluntary alternative, or creating a headline price match policy full of hidden small print, seems more popular here.

Remember LV Martin?
Their catchphrase was: "It's the putting right that counts".

Well, for many reasons, they've just had their doors closed.
Why?
Well, you could argue that when you buy a new product, something cool, something to solve an issue, something that fits in with your lifestyle - you're not buying it with the intention that it will go wrong.
That's why people, in their masses, choose the lowest price. If they can get away with importing it, many will. If it means price-matching and driving the retailers into competition - many will.
And guess what?
That's clearly hurting many retailers. Those who are surviving are getting by, but judging by the financial results, no one in NZ is making a lot of money.

If you want the price-match / fix the issue no-matter-what approach, best move to America. As no one can make Kiwi's show any loyalty to anything other than price, by all accounts.

mattwnz

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#1458191 28-Dec-2015 19:01

Dunnersfella:
Geektastic: I love how no one embraces a simple, straightforward and honest approach on the assumption that they will immediately become the retailer of choice...!

American retailers and manufacturers build huge businesses by having straightforward "if it breaks, we'll fix it - forever" warranties, "If you can get it cheaper elsewhere, we'll beat it" pricing and so on. People choose those businesses because of that.

They don't usually fill them with caveats, conditions and tortuous requirements like here.

Must be a character thing or something I suppose.

More than price, I can guarantee that the person who says "We'll fix it, no hassle, no charge, for all the time you own it" will get my business every time over competitors that don't.

It seems that offering the legal minimum (and then often being difficult about it) rather than a generous voluntary alternative, or creating a headline price match policy full of hidden small print, seems more popular here.

Remember LV Martin?
Their catchphrase was: "It's the putting right that counts".

Well, for many reasons, they've just had their doors closed.
Why?
Well, you could argue that when you buy a new product, something cool, something to solve an issue, something that fits in with your lifestyle - you're not buying it with the intention that it will go wrong.
That's why people, in their masses, choose the lowest price. If they can get away with importing it, many will. If it means price-matching and driving the retailers into competition - many will.
And guess what?
That's clearly hurting many retailers. Those who are surviving are getting by, but judging by the financial results, no one in NZ is making a lot of money.

If you want the price-match / fix the issue no-matter-what approach, best move to America. As no one can make Kiwi's show any loyalty to anything other than price, by all accounts.

They got bought out by smiths city, and have just rebranded their stores, so they haven't really closed. Just teh brand has gone, and no different to Kirkaldies which has been brought out by a big Australian retailer. I hardly never buy anything from smiths city myself, their pricing isn't the sharpest, and there is no point of difference between that and other retailers.

The problem in NZ with retailers, is that they don't provide the great customer service they used to. In the US and the UK, I found staff in electronics retailers far better. We used to buy a lot form LV Martins becuase their service was good, and the staff were old regulars who had been there for years. But the influx of their Ozzie owned retailers over the last decade, has basically flooded the market, and their service is poor overall, poor product knowledge, and young rude cocky staff. Basically many of the staff don't know the products they are selling. So it has been a race to the bottom. That is exactly why the rate poorly in consumer ratings. LV Martins used to be the best rating. In the US, they are very patriotic, and will buy from US businesses over other countries. But in NZ, there is no loyalty to NZ owned, over overseas owned businesses. This is led from the top, where even government contracts are won by the cheapest, and not necessarily by NZ companies bidding. They don't seem to realize that it isn't good for NZ, as the profits are sent offshore.

Dunnersfella

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#1458265 28-Dec-2015 21:24

mattwnz:
They got bought out by smiths city, and have just rebranded their stores, so they haven't really closed. Just teh brand has gone, and no different to Kirkaldies which has been brought out by a big Australian retailer. I hardly never buy anything from smiths city myself, their pricing isn't the sharpest, and there is no point of difference between that and other retailers.

The problem in NZ with retailers, is that they don't provide the great customer service they used to. In the US and the UK, I found staff in electronics retailers far better. We used to buy a lot form LV Martins becuase their service was good, and the staff were old regulars who had been there for years. But the influx of their Ozzie owned retailers over the last decade, has basically flooded the market, and their service is poor overall, poor product knowledge, and young rude cocky staff. Basically many of the staff don't know the products they are selling. So it has been a race to the bottom. That is exactly why the rate poorly in consumer ratings. LV Martins used to be the best rating. In the US, they are very patriotic, and will buy from US businesses over other countries. But in NZ, there is no loyalty to NZ owned, over overseas owned businesses. This is led from the top, where even government contracts are won by the cheapest, and not necessarily by NZ companies bidding. They don't seem to realize that it isn't good for NZ, as the profits are sent offshore.

It doesn't matter how you spin it, they're closed.
The business is no longer trading, they were not longer succesfull - game over.

It's easy to find issues with retailers, picking holes is child's play.

But here's the thing, no one can be everything to everyone at all times. Some retailers are actually very good in certain areas.
I have a 'tyre guy' who I trust to put new shoes on my cars, but would I trust him to work on my aircon?
Nope.
I see a swing heading back towards specialists in 'some' product types. But items like TV's / fridges / tablets / printers are chainstore fodder now. The smart ones try to create their own niches around these 'core' categories, such as kitchens, high end small appliances etc.
I don't care who owns it, as I understand that just because a company that is listed on the NZ stock exchange, it doesn't mean all the profits are going to stay in NZ... Tax might, but look into Smiths City's tax payments, then get back to me...

Geektastic

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#1458287 28-Dec-2015 22:36

Dunnersfella:
Geektastic: I love how no one embraces a simple, straightforward and honest approach on the assumption that they will immediately become the retailer of choice...!

American retailers and manufacturers build huge businesses by having straightforward "if it breaks, we'll fix it - forever" warranties, "If you can get it cheaper elsewhere, we'll beat it" pricing and so on. People choose those businesses because of that.

They don't usually fill them with caveats, conditions and tortuous requirements like here.

Must be a character thing or something I suppose.

More than price, I can guarantee that the person who says "We'll fix it, no hassle, no charge, for all the time you own it" will get my business every time over competitors that don't.

It seems that offering the legal minimum (and then often being difficult about it) rather than a generous voluntary alternative, or creating a headline price match policy full of hidden small print, seems more popular here.

Remember LV Martin?
Their catchphrase was: "It's the putting right that counts".

Well, for many reasons, they've just had their doors closed.
Why?
Well, you could argue that when you buy a new product, something cool, something to solve an issue, something that fits in with your lifestyle - you're not buying it with the intention that it will go wrong.
That's why people, in their masses, choose the lowest price. If they can get away with importing it, many will. If it means price-matching and driving the retailers into competition - many will.
And guess what?
That's clearly hurting many retailers. Those who are surviving are getting by, but judging by the financial results, no one in NZ is making a lot of money.

If you want the price-match / fix the issue no-matter-what approach, best move to America. As no one can make Kiwi's show any loyalty to anything other than price, by all accounts.

That's partly because we have seem to have a law that makes the retailer put it right not the manufacturer.

You buy a Sony TV (for example) and there is a nice book in there telling you Sony warrants it for (say) 2 years. Yet here, it seems the person who sold you the TV (and had no hand in the making of it or thus the going wrong of it) must fix it if needed.

I assume that the retailer simply claims from the manufacturer (in which case he should not be out of pocket) but don't know.

Geektastic

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#1458288 28-Dec-2015 22:40

mattwnz:
Dunnersfella:
Geektastic: I love how no one embraces a simple, straightforward and honest approach on the assumption that they will immediately become the retailer of choice...!

American retailers and manufacturers build huge businesses by having straightforward "if it breaks, we'll fix it - forever" warranties, "If you can get it cheaper elsewhere, we'll beat it" pricing and so on. People choose those businesses because of that.

They don't usually fill them with caveats, conditions and tortuous requirements like here.

Must be a character thing or something I suppose.

More than price, I can guarantee that the person who says "We'll fix it, no hassle, no charge, for all the time you own it" will get my business every time over competitors that don't.

It seems that offering the legal minimum (and then often being difficult about it) rather than a generous voluntary alternative, or creating a headline price match policy full of hidden small print, seems more popular here.

Remember LV Martin?
Their catchphrase was: "It's the putting right that counts".

Well, for many reasons, they've just had their doors closed.
Why?
Well, you could argue that when you buy a new product, something cool, something to solve an issue, something that fits in with your lifestyle - you're not buying it with the intention that it will go wrong.
That's why people, in their masses, choose the lowest price. If they can get away with importing it, many will. If it means price-matching and driving the retailers into competition - many will.
And guess what?
That's clearly hurting many retailers. Those who are surviving are getting by, but judging by the financial results, no one in NZ is making a lot of money.

If you want the price-match / fix the issue no-matter-what approach, best move to America. As no one can make Kiwi's show any loyalty to anything other than price, by all accounts.

They got bought out by smiths city, and have just rebranded their stores, so they haven't really closed. Just teh brand has gone, and no different to Kirkaldies which has been brought out by a big Australian retailer. I hardly never buy anything from smiths city myself, their pricing isn't the sharpest, and there is no point of difference between that and other retailers.

The problem in NZ with retailers, is that they don't provide the great customer service they used to. In the US and the UK, I found staff in electronics retailers far better. We used to buy a lot form LV Martins becuase their service was good, and the staff were old regulars who had been there for years. But the influx of their Ozzie owned retailers over the last decade, has basically flooded the market, and their service is poor overall, poor product knowledge, and young rude cocky staff. Basically many of the staff don't know the products they are selling. So it has been a race to the bottom. That is exactly why the rate poorly in consumer ratings. LV Martins used to be the best rating. In the US, they are very patriotic, and will buy from US businesses over other countries. But in NZ, there is no loyalty to NZ owned, over overseas owned businesses. This is led from the top, where even government contracts are won by the cheapest, and not necessarily by NZ companies bidding. They don't seem to realize that it isn't good for NZ, as the profits are sent offshore.

In the US, of course, prices are generally lower and even then, US companies will often make overseas.

I read an article by Sal Glesser of Spyderco in which he had had a particular knife made (very well made, too) in Taiwan rather than the USA "because if we made it here, it would add another $100 or so to each knife and they would not sell" on a $300 product!

When you are in a country that sells (for example) trainers for four times the US price, it is not surprising that people look for cheap just to get what other places get as normal.

mattwnz

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#1458303 28-Dec-2015 23:35

Dunnersfella:
mattwnz:
They got bought out by smiths city, and have just rebranded their stores, so they haven't really closed. Just teh brand has gone, and no different to Kirkaldies which has been brought out by a big Australian retailer. I hardly never buy anything from smiths city myself, their pricing isn't the sharpest, and there is no point of difference between that and other retailers.

The problem in NZ with retailers, is that they don't provide the great customer service they used to. In the US and the UK, I found staff in electronics retailers far better. We used to buy a lot form LV Martins becuase their service was good, and the staff were old regulars who had been there for years. But the influx of their Ozzie owned retailers over the last decade, has basically flooded the market, and their service is poor overall, poor product knowledge, and young rude cocky staff. Basically many of the staff don't know the products they are selling. So it has been a race to the bottom. That is exactly why the rate poorly in consumer ratings. LV Martins used to be the best rating. In the US, they are very patriotic, and will buy from US businesses over other countries. But in NZ, there is no loyalty to NZ owned, over overseas owned businesses. This is led from the top, where even government contracts are won by the cheapest, and not necessarily by NZ companies bidding. They don't seem to realize that it isn't good for NZ, as the profits are sent offshore.

It doesn't matter how you spin it, they're closed.
The business is no longer trading, they were not longer succesfull - game over.

I see a swing heading back towards specialists in 'some' product types. But items like TV's / fridges / tablets / printers are chainstore fodder now. The smart ones try to create their own

They they didn't fail though, I believe the ownership changed, and they then continued to trade under LV Martins for several years afterwards. I believe it was solely a consolidation of the brands getting rid of the LV Martin brand, no different to Bond and Bond brand being phased out after the warehouse purchased Noel Leemings, as the additional brand was surplus to requirements.They have slowly phased out the LV Martin brand over several years replacing with the Smiths City brand. In Lower Hutt they had their Smiths City and LV martins right next to one another, and the just merged the stores to make one very big Smiths city store.I have been a shopper at LV Martins for the best part of 30 years so am very familiar with the stores in Wellington. The funny thing is that Smith City was a big brand in the 90's in Wellington, and then it disappeared and all the Wellington shops closed, and only within the last 5 or so years has it come back to the North Island. I noticed though they did recently close their newish Smiths City Upper Hutt store, possibly not too much business up there. So these things go cycles.

A good example of consolidation of the market, is the building hardware / building materials market, where they can sell things for a premium price, and have very few sales. NZ now mainly has the two big brands, and they largely have the market to themselves and can charge what they want. I can see this eventually happening in the home appliances market, although we are lucky that we do have the Warehouse and it's other brands, who help with the competition at the moment.

Dunnersfella

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#1458637 29-Dec-2015 17:50

mattwnz:
Dunnersfella:
mattwnz:
They got bought out by smiths city, and have just rebranded their stores, so they haven't really closed. Just teh brand has gone, and no different to Kirkaldies which has been brought out by a big Australian retailer. I hardly never buy anything from smiths city myself, their pricing isn't the sharpest, and there is no point of difference between that and other retailers.

The problem in NZ with retailers, is that they don't provide the great customer service they used to. In the US and the UK, I found staff in electronics retailers far better. We used to buy a lot form LV Martins becuase their service was good, and the staff were old regulars who had been there for years. But the influx of their Ozzie owned retailers over the last decade, has basically flooded the market, and their service is poor overall, poor product knowledge, and young rude cocky staff. Basically many of the staff don't know the products they are selling. So it has been a race to the bottom. That is exactly why the rate poorly in consumer ratings. LV Martins used to be the best rating. In the US, they are very patriotic, and will buy from US businesses over other countries. But in NZ, there is no loyalty to NZ owned, over overseas owned businesses. This is led from the top, where even government contracts are won by the cheapest, and not necessarily by NZ companies bidding. They don't seem to realize that it isn't good for NZ, as the profits are sent offshore.

It doesn't matter how you spin it, they're closed.
The business is no longer trading, they were not longer succesfull - game over.

I see a swing heading back towards specialists in 'some' product types. But items like TV's / fridges / tablets / printers are chainstore fodder now. The smart ones try to create their own

They they didn't fail though, I believe the ownership changed, and they then continued to trade under LV Martins for several years afterwards. I believe it was solely a consolidation of the brands getting rid of the LV Martin brand, no different to Bond and Bond brand being phased out after the warehouse purchased Noel Leemings, as the additional brand was surplus to requirements.They have slowly phased out the LV Martin brand over several years replacing with the Smiths City brand. In Lower Hutt they had their Smiths City and LV martins right next to one another, and the just merged the stores to make one very big Smiths city store.I have been a shopper at LV Martins for the best part of 30 years so am very familiar with the stores in Wellington. The funny thing is that Smith City was a big brand in the 90's in Wellington, and then it disappeared and all the Wellington shops closed, and only within the last 5 or so years has it come back to the North Island. I noticed though they did recently close their newish Smiths City Upper Hutt store, possibly not too much business up there. So these things go cycles.

A good example of consolidation of the market, is the building hardware / building materials market, where they can sell things for a premium price, and have very few sales. NZ now mainly has the two big brands, and they largely have the market to themselves and can charge what they want. I can see this eventually happening in the home appliances market, although we are lucky that we do have the Warehouse and it's other brands, who help with the competition at the moment.

Smiths ran LV Martins for a decade, but the new CEO for Smiths needs to make the business profitable or the whole lot will be gone... Alectra (their service arm) is gone, the flagship store has been sold (it's now rented)... They're being crunched:
This is effectively the press-release.
http://wares.co.nz/articles/2015/december/05/lv-martin/

If they were profitable and strong enough to stand on their own two feet, or indeed, prop up the rest of Smith's... they'd be here. But obviously they aren't. The same goes for the Powerstore brand that Smith's are in the middle of nuking through out the South.

It's the same with Bond & Bond. When the Gresham Group owned them, they needed to inject massive amounts of money to keep them afloat - when the Warehouse bought them, they'd have said "Holy heck - drop the dead weight or it's have to take us all down".

The main thing to take from this, is as the number of stores reduce, it will either stabalise the market, OR, it will create a vacuum. The vacuum will most likely be filled by the big boys.

mattwnz

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#1458685 29-Dec-2015 18:44

Dunnersfella:

The main thing to take from this, is as the number of stores reduce, it will either stabalise the market, OR, it will create a vacuum. The vacuum will most likely be filled by the big boys.

At the end of the day, it isn't great for consumers, as it means less competition. This type of consolidation is somewhat occurring in the ISP market too, and means consumers are going to be paying more next year with the reduced competition, as the ISPs pass on increased costs. In the past they tended to absorb them.

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