Our pitiful judicial system

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#1584942 3-Jul-2016 01:08

I read it as being for the year to-date. In a country of around 324 million people and which is awash with firearms and where plenty of cops are killed (by any means), or shot at, or attacked with other weapons, or 'just' violently assaulted every year, I actually think the number is remarkably low.

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#1584950 3-Jul-2016 07:28

It is since Jan 1st 2016.

As at June 30, the total was 581, so you might predict that the annual total will be 1162. Not quite thousands, but more than one thousand.

Dratsab

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#1584963 3-Jul-2016 09:06

A number of sheriff's dept's/counties/jurisdictions also have varying levels of corruption and/racism to throw into the mix, amongst other things. I've had a quick glance at some of the figures for previous years and, while not complete, still don't see thousands per year.

Quite obviously there's far too many and I've no doubt that before public scrutiny started to become a factor over there 'thousands' may not have been a gross exaggeration.

Anyway, back on topic...

sir1963

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#1585017 3-Jul-2016 10:08

Lias:

As far as I'm concerned, when it comes to those specific crimes, it's just like shooting a rabid dog. A dog goes rabid, or attacks stock/people we don't even think about putting it down for the good of society. Murderers, rapists, and child abuses should be the same.

It is estimated that 10% of prisoners on Death row are innocent.

If the death penalty was a deterrent the US wold have lower crime than NZ, it doesn't.

sir1963

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#1585022 3-Jul-2016 10:11

Geektastic:

dejadeadnz:

Lias:

As far as I'm concerned, when it comes to those specific crimes, it's just like shooting a rabid dog. A dog goes rabid, or attacks stock/people we don't even think about putting it down for the good of society. Murderers, rapists, and child abuses should be the same.

As far as I'm concerned, when it comes to people who advocate ideas that are blatantly contrary to the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act and numerous other international human rights instruments to which NZ has freely and solemnly agreed to follow, I wonder whether said person (1) went to school, and/or (2) is so contemptuous of his/her own country that the position of one's country facing international opprobrium or worse for barbarity doesn't bother him/her, and/or (3) has bothered to engage brain before speaking or writing.

I worry about the politicians who enact laws to protect such people more than that if I am honest. I rather like the medieval concept of 'outlaw' - that by committing certain crimes, you place yourself outside the protection of the law.

Witch witch witch...lets see if it burns

Now, if we only had a system that was 100% correct, that people making accusations never lied, the police were always competent, that lawyers we equally competent too and that people with bias, lust for revenge, etc never made it onto a jury.

sir1963

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#1585024 3-Jul-2016 10:16

Dratsab:
sir1963: The US penal system is far more punitive than the NZ one, they have far harsher prisons and sentences, they have the death penalty, police shoot and kill thousands of citizens a year and they have been doing this for generations, guess what, their crime rates are much higher then NZ's.

Civilians in the US shoot and kill thousands of each other every year, Police don't. Other than that, you're correct.

Last year at las 1208

http://www.killedbypolice.net/kbp2015.html

And depending on what county/state you are in records may or may not be kept/reported.

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#1585031 3-Jul-2016 10:36

sir1963:

Dratsab:
sir1963: The US penal system is far more punitive than the NZ one, they have far harsher prisons and sentences, they have the death penalty, police shoot and kill thousands of citizens a year and they have been doing this for generations, guess what, their crime rates are much higher then NZ's.

Civilians in the US shoot and kill thousands of each other every year, Police don't. Other than that, you're correct.

Last year at las 1208

http://www.killedbypolice.net/kbp2015.html

And depending on what county/state you are in records may or may not be kept/reported.

Just as a rough approximation on a population basis to NZ, that would be about 16 deaths by police shooting per year per 4.5 million people. Deaths by police shooting in NZ are about one every two years over the past 50 years or so. So death by shooting by police is about 30 times higher in the US than NZ.

sir1963

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#1585056 3-Jul-2016 11:01

Fred99:

sir1963:

Dratsab:
sir1963: The US penal system is far more punitive than the NZ one, they have far harsher prisons and sentences, they have the death penalty, police shoot and kill thousands of citizens a year and they have been doing this for generations, guess what, their crime rates are much higher then NZ's.

Civilians in the US shoot and kill thousands of each other every year, Police don't. Other than that, you're correct.

Last year at las 1208

http://www.killedbypolice.net/kbp2015.html

And depending on what county/state you are in records may or may not be kept/reported.

Just as a rough approximation on a population basis to NZ, that would be about 16 deaths by police shooting per year per 4.5 million people. Deaths by police shooting in NZ are about one every two years over the past 50 years or so. So death by shooting by police is about 30 times higher in the US than NZ.

NZ homicide rate per 100,000 is 0.9, the USA is 3.9, a bit over 4 times our rate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

NZ Homicide by fire arm per 100,000 is 0.16, the USA is 2.97, over 18 times higher

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

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#1585117 3-Jul-2016 13:51

sir1963:

Geektastic:

dejadeadnz:

Lias:

As far as I'm concerned, when it comes to those specific crimes, it's just like shooting a rabid dog. A dog goes rabid, or attacks stock/people we don't even think about putting it down for the good of society. Murderers, rapists, and child abuses should be the same.

As far as I'm concerned, when it comes to people who advocate ideas that are blatantly contrary to the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act and numerous other international human rights instruments to which NZ has freely and solemnly agreed to follow, I wonder whether said person (1) went to school, and/or (2) is so contemptuous of his/her own country that the position of one's country facing international opprobrium or worse for barbarity doesn't bother him/her, and/or (3) has bothered to engage brain before speaking or writing.

I worry about the politicians who enact laws to protect such people more than that if I am honest. I rather like the medieval concept of 'outlaw' - that by committing certain crimes, you place yourself outside the protection of the law.

Witch witch witch...lets see if it burns

Now, if we only had a system that was 100% correct, that people making accusations never lied, the police were always competent, that lawyers we equally competent too and that people with bias, lust for revenge, etc never made it onto a jury.

The problem is that too many of the population here are feral. Their standards and norms of behaviour appear to fall a long way short of civilised living.

Quite what you can do about that, I do not know.

Rikkitic

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#1585127 3-Jul-2016 15:02

How do you know this? What is the basis for your information? How do you define 'feral'? As an aside, the most feral creatures I ever witnessed were English football fans in Amsterdam.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#1585132 3-Jul-2016 15:38

Geektastic: The problem is that too many of the population here are feral. Their standards and norms of behaviour appear to fall a long way short of civilised living.

Quite what you can do about that, I do not know.

Here is an idea. Education, healthy homes, decent standard of living to name but three.
Helps if you prevent them from becoming lifetime criminals in the first place than housing them for 90k per annum.
If the lowest 10% of society do well, the flow on effect across all society is massive.

But let's not talk about that as increasing taxes and improving the lives of our most impoverished as that isn't a vote winner.
Let's just build more prisons and execute our worst offenders, but you know I won't pull the trigger or face the consequences if I am wrong. As that's just far too difficult to think about. Mmmm kay?

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#1585423 4-Jul-2016 09:32

I get frustrated with concurrent sentences. A person robs 8 homes. Gets sentenced to 6 months for each but served concurrently and is out in 4 months because he was well behaved inside.

Mike

sir1963

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#1585431 4-Jul-2016 09:54

MikeAqua:

I get frustrated with concurrent sentences. A person robs 8 homes. Gets sentenced to 6 months for each but served concurrently and is out in 4 months because he was well behaved inside.

I am more than Happy for you to shell out another $10,000-$14,000 for the remaining 2 months.

I get frustrated with people who bitch about paying people a benefit, then demand longer prison sentences.

I also get frustrated with Wealthy White people getting a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket, perhaps if Johnny Depp had his dogs shot, and him put in prison for 5 years then everyone may have more respect for the law.

BTR

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#1585467 4-Jul-2016 10:46

I like the island idea, stick them on an island locked up, they should have to grow their own food otherwise they don't eat, provided the island is far enough away form mainland NZ then minimal guards would be needed.

A simple Heli drop in would be all thats needed and when they finally kick the bucket over burial at sea. Nice and cheap to the tax payer.

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#1585484 4-Jul-2016 11:02

BTR:

I like the island idea, stick them on an island locked up, they should have to grow their own food otherwise they don't eat, provided the island is far enough away form mainland NZ then minimal guards would be needed.

A simple Heli drop in would be all thats needed and when they finally kick the bucket over burial at sea. Nice and cheap to the tax payer.

Did you just describe a modern day Australia?

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