Another sad day for France

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#1594267 18-Jul-2016 08:41

DaveB:

DarthKermit:

Indeed MikeB4. At the end of the day who cares what label is applied to the guy who did this. 84 people are dead and hundreds are injured.

At least he was finally dealt with ....... sent straight back to hell where he belongs. I do tend to struggle with the death penalty, but in this case you can't help but feel that some people just do not deserve to continue stealing our air any longer.

He wasn't "dealt with" at all. He expected to die and achieved his goal - if there was a window from hell or wherever his soul (if he had one) ended up, he'd be congratulating himself for a job well done. Unfortunately his success will probably inspire others.

The death penalty is not a deterrent against terrorist acts.

davidknz

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#1594482 18-Jul-2016 13:45

Fred99 :-)

"Houston, We've Got a Problem Here". Well.. actually Nice and EU. And a long term problem

Turkey, desirous of joining the EU, has its Presidency of Religious Affairs.

publishing cartoons for school children extolling the virtues of martyrdom.

Takeouts:

'Our prophet says: a martyr feels the pain of dying as much as you feel pain when being pinched.'

Girl: 'I wish I could be a martyr'. Mother: 'If you desire enough, Allah will give you that opportunity'

https://www.rt.com/news/338278-turkey-diyanet-children-martyrdom

I have Muslim friends who are appalled

DaveB

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#1594569 18-Jul-2016 16:17

Fred99:

DaveB:

DarthKermit:

Indeed MikeB4. At the end of the day who cares what label is applied to the guy who did this. 84 people are dead and hundreds are injured.

At least he was finally dealt with ....... sent straight back to hell where he belongs. I do tend to struggle with the death penalty, but in this case you can't help but feel that some people just do not deserve to continue stealing our air any longer.

He wasn't "dealt with" at all. He expected to die and achieved his goal - if there was a window from hell or wherever his soul (if he had one) ended up, he'd be congratulating himself for a job well done. Unfortunately his success will probably inspire others.

The death penalty is not a deterrent against terrorist acts.

I agree, the death penalty is not a deterrent. Nor was his sudden death. But better this animal was put down rather than be a costly burden on the justice system.

DarthKermit

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#1594588 18-Jul-2016 16:40

Agreed.

Rikkitic

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#1594654 18-Jul-2016 17:34

And death begets death begets death begets death. Nothing changes. How depressing.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

gzt

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#1594736 18-Jul-2016 21:22

davidknz: "Houston, We've Got a Problem Here". Well.. actually Nice and EU. And a long term problem

Turkey, desirous of joining the EU, has its Presidency of Religious Affairs.

publishing cartoons for school children extolling the virtues of martyrdom.

This is not very nice, but this cartoon is not referring to suicide bombing etc as some might assume.

In the cartoon background are graves with Turkish flags.

The context is more like 'for god and country'.

For example in the recent coup attempt, government sources state 161 were martyred.

Fred99

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#1594753 18-Jul-2016 22:40

gzt:
davidknz: "Houston, We've Got a Problem Here". Well.. actually Nice and EU. And a long term problem

Turkey, desirous of joining the EU, has its Presidency of Religious Affairs.

publishing cartoons for school children extolling the virtues of martyrdom.

This is not very nice, but this cartoon is not referring to suicide bombing etc as some might assume.

In the cartoon background are graves with Turkish flags.

The context is more like 'for god and country'.

For example in the recent coup attempt, government sources state 161 were martyred.

The source for that cartoon translation was RT, mouthpiece for Putin.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

davidknz

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#1594884 19-Jul-2016 10:01

Fred99:

The source for that cartoon translation was RT, mouthpiece for Putin.

Ahhh.. No

I took a screen shot of the graphic and fed the text to Google Translator

Its pretty accurate

Mouthpiece for Putin?? Which one??

There are two Putins

One incessantly reviled by the Western Press as the Source of all Evil

The other commanding 85% popularity in his own country

and considerable respect as a statesman by Non aligned governments .

He also has a sense of humour - if you have 2 minutes, try

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4SZ49_bS0Y

davidknz

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#1594901 19-Jul-2016 10:19

Rikkitic:

And death begets death begets death begets death. Nothing changes. How depressing.

Exactly

My point is that the tragedy in Nice was not an isolated incident, but one

specifically proscribed in an earlier ISIS publication. Horrific as it was, it was

the result of a deeper cause. And it is this cause that need to be examined

if more catastrophic carnage is to be avoided.

The base ingredient seems to be religious fundamentalism, coupled with

lifelong indoctrination - starting early ....hence the Diyanet cartoons..

I didn't realise how much of a mess Islamic Turkey is in until

I looked at https://twitter.com/TurkeyUntold?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

A biased site, but the pics are real. There seems to be no end to it...

frankv

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#1594952 19-Jul-2016 11:43

Fred99:

The death penalty is not a deterrent against terrorist acts.

Well, it isn't against terrorist acts where the perpetrator has decided that dying is an acceptable outcome. There are plenty of terrorists who don't subscribe to that.

I think the appalling thing is that some people's view of the world can be so bleak that death is preferable to the status quo. And I think that this is largely due to the powerlessness of the populace... if you want real change you have to be prepared to die for it.

"Give me liberty or give me death" said Patrick Henry on March 23, 1775, and numerous others, before and since. Oh wait, Patrick Henry was a noble patriot, not a terrorist.

DarthKermit

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#1594959 19-Jul-2016 11:58

frankv:

Oh wait, Patrick Henry was a noble patriot, not a terrorist.

And if the American Revolution had failed...

"History is written by the victorious." Never a truer word was spoken.

Rikkitic

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#1594968 19-Jul-2016 12:14

There are different issues at play here. Anyone who somehow thinks, for any reason, that murder is a solution to anything, whether it be individual beheadings or indiscriminate mass killings, is at best a seriously sick human being. How this person comes to be so sick is a separate matter.

Anyone who goes on a killing rampage needs to be stopped as quickly and effectively as possible. I have no problem with shooting to kill in such a situation. That is simply self-defence. I do have a big problem with facile comments about putting bullets into people when they do not pose an immediate threat. Taking a life is a very serious matter, regardless of who does it, or under what circumstances. Just because someone with no respect for life wants to kill me, does not mean I should see this as some kind of justification to do the same. Either human life has value or it does not. You can’t have it both ways. Murder is murder and the actions of another, however despicable, cannot be taken as an excuse to descend into the same kind of behaviour. Nor can the expense of keeping a criminal safely incarcerated be used as an argument for execution. If we are ever to have any hope of becoming truly civilised, we need to move beyond this kind of thinking. Death just begets death. Only mercy can ever break the cycle.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

MikeB4

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#1595004 19-Jul-2016 13:16

Rikkitic:

There are different issues at play here. Anyone who somehow thinks, for any reason, that murder is a solution to anything, whether it be individual beheadings or indiscriminate mass killings, is at best a seriously sick human being. How this person comes to be so sick is a separate matter.

Anyone who goes on a killing rampage needs to be stopped as quickly and effectively as possible. I have no problem with shooting to kill in such a situation. That is simply self-defence. I do have a big problem with facile comments about putting bullets into people when they do not pose an immediate threat. Taking a life is a very serious matter, regardless of who does it, or under what circumstances. Just because someone with no respect for life wants to kill me, does not mean I should see this as some kind of justification to do the same. Either human life has value or it does not. You can’t have it both ways. Murder is murder and the actions of another, however despicable, cannot be taken as an excuse to descend into the same kind of behaviour. Nor can the expense of keeping a criminal safely incarcerated be used as an argument for execution. If we are ever to have any hope of becoming truly civilised, we need to move beyond this kind of thinking. Death just begets death. Only mercy can ever break the cycle.

The thought of mercy breaking the cycle is nice but these people are deeply disturbed and radicalised to the point of being completely insensitive to the consequences of their actions. Add to the mix Methamphetamines and you have a weapon very hard to stop and unlikely to be changed.

gzt

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#1595021 19-Jul-2016 13:27

davidknz:
Fred99:

The source for that cartoon translation was RT, mouthpiece for Putin.

Ahhh.. No

I took a screen shot of the graphic and fed the text to Google Translator

Its pretty accurate

Personally I do not doubt the translation. But the cartoon is very clearly not referring to suicide bombing or anything like that. When I googled it, many many links to that article are assuming it is all about the kind of things ISIS does. That's rubbish.

gzt

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#1595025 19-Jul-2016 13:33

On the day of the coup attempt I caught 5 minutes of 1ZB live coverage on the car radio. They were playing some kind of ominous sound effect in the background of the broadcast. Is that normal for 1ZB?

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