The Universe, who is fascinated by that?

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#1619507 30-Aug-2016 10:07

andrew027:

So what's beyond the universe? Do the laws of physiscs even exist outside the universe as they do inside?

By definition, the universe is all of space and time, and all its contents. So nothing can be "beyond" or "outside" the universe. Your questions are dividing by zero.

The observable universe is everything that can be sensed in any way... i.e. that can have any kind of effect, however small, on the observer. If something is not observable, it can't be sensed or affect you, so it is entirely irrelevant and unimportant. Similarly, it's irrelevant whether the laws of physics exist there or not. However, our knowledge of the laws of physics is incomplete, so there may be "stuff" in our universe which is currently undetectable, and we may be able to expand the boundaries of our observable universe.

The same applies to the concept of the multiverse or parallel universes. If something is in another universe, it can't affect you, so (a) it's not observable, and (b) it doesn't matter (pun intended).

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#1619527 30-Aug-2016 10:38

frankv:

The same applies to the concept of the multiverse or parallel universes. If something is in another universe, it can't affect you, so (a) it's not observable, and (b) it doesn't matter (pun intended).

There is evidence that can be interpreted as other universes interacting with our universe.

Mike

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#1619530 30-Aug-2016 10:43

MikeAqua:

frankv:

The same applies to the concept of the multiverse or parallel universes. If something is in another universe, it can't affect you, so (a) it's not observable, and (b) it doesn't matter (pun intended).

There is evidence that can be interpreted as other universes interacting with our universe.

I'd argue that this is evidence that our universe includes those "other universes", and we don't understand the physics of how those parts of our universe interact with the part we do know about.

MikeB4

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#1619537 30-Aug-2016 11:00

is E.T phoning us?

http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/alien-life-or-noise-russian-telescope-detects-strong-signal-from-sun-like-star/

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1619573 30-Aug-2016 11:53

MikeB4:

is E.T phoning us?

http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/alien-life-or-noise-russian-telescope-detects-strong-signal-from-sun-like-star/

Tricky one that ...

We don't want to be colonised by a technologically superior culture. Ask any indigenous people on earth.

If they aren't technologically superior, and we can communicate but lack the technology to physically reach the same place, that could be cool.

Mike

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#1619582 30-Aug-2016 12:09

MikeAqua:
MikeB4:

is E.T phoning us?

http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/alien-life-or-noise-russian-telescope-detects-strong-signal-from-sun-like-star/

Tricky one that ...

We don't want to be colonised by a technologically superior culture. Ask any indigenous people on earth.

If they aren't technologically superior, and we can communicate but lack the technology to physically reach the same place, that could be cool.

I am sorta with Stephen Hawking on this. I don't think we should be too keen on this activity at our current stage of development

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1619583 30-Aug-2016 12:10

MikeAqua:

MikeB4:

is E.T phoning us?

http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/alien-life-or-noise-russian-telescope-detects-strong-signal-from-sun-like-star/

Tricky one that ...

We don't want to be colonised by a technologically superior culture. Ask any indigenous people on earth.

If they aren't technologically superior, and we can communicate but lack the technology to physically reach the same place, that could be cool.

Be a frustrating conversation, the closest stars are 4 lightyears away, if there was an exoplanet there. 2016 "Hi mate" 2020 "Hi, whose this" 2024 "TDGeek from earth"

Plus the obvious, there wont be many English language schools there before we can understand each other.

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#1619595 30-Aug-2016 12:37

MikeAqua:

We don't want to be colonised by a technologically superior culture. Ask any indigenous people on earth.

If they aren't technologically superior, and we can communicate but lack the technology to physically reach the same place, that could be cool.

There's no way we can (currently) intentionally send a signal 95 light years, so there's no conversation going to happen.

So, if that signal is from a real ET, then they *must* be technologically superior. Especially if it's from an ET who is detecting and responding to signals we've unintentionally sent 95+ years ago.

Hopefully they're not saying "Our mutual-defence pact with the Austro-Hungarian empire forces us to..."

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#1619620 30-Aug-2016 12:55

MikeAqua:
Geektastic:

I always wonder, when they say that the universe is expanding, what they think it is expanding into i.e., if the universe were a balloon being inflated in a box, what is the box?

This is something I find interesting too. As I understand it we have observed objects within the universe moving further apart and from that we infer that the universe is expanding.

But we haven't/can't observe an outer limit of the universe, so there isn't really a case for saying the universe as a whole is expanding?

It also seems the universe has a general property of aggregation.

Loose matter into solar systems, solar systems into nebula, nebula into galaxies. It's like dust-bunny formation on the cosmic scale.

Even the galaxies are slowly aggregating into central black holes.

Will the black holes eventually also aggregate until there is just one big black hole, which eventually becomes unstable and explodes to start the cycle again.

This explains why we are all getting fatter.

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#1619628 30-Aug-2016 13:02

JWR:
MikeAqua:

Geektastic:

I always wonder, when they say that the universe is expanding, what they think it is expanding into i.e., if the universe were a balloon being inflated in a box, what is the box?

This is something I find interesting too. As I understand it we have observed objects within the universe moving further apart and from that we infer that the universe is expanding.

But we haven't/can't observe an outer limit of the universe, so there isn't really a case for saying the universe as a whole is expanding?

It also seems the universe has a general property of aggregation.

Loose matter into solar systems, solar systems into nebula, nebula into galaxies. It's like dust-bunny formation on the cosmic scale.

Even the galaxies are slowly aggregating into central black holes.

Will the black holes eventually also aggregate until there is just one big black hole, which eventually becomes unstable and explodes to start the cycle again.

No. You can't say anything about what is happening far beyond the edge of the visible Universe.

The current visible Universe is about 45 Billion light years out in all directions.

It is reasonable to assume that conditions are similar somewhat further out than that.

But, at far greater distances, the Universe could be vastly different.

The Universe could be finite and self-contained or it could be infinite.

It is true that all orbits eventually decay.

Over time all local, gravitationally bound matter will condense into black holes.

But, we won't be left with just one black hole, because the expanding (and accelerating) Universe will keep that from happening.

A few years ago it was discovered that black holes should emit radiation. This takes mass from the black hole. (see Stephen Hawking, Hawking Radiiation, Jacob Beckenstein and others)

In around a Googol years (1 with 100 zeros after it) even black holes will fade away and all the will be left are occasional particles flying across the Universe.

I find astrophysics a bit like a dog chasing its tail. Everything they come up with are knowledge that are light years old. So old that my grandmother's tales are more current.

And Neil dgT knows everything. When someone claims they know everything they ain't got much left in the tank. I think he disagrees with many universal theories, reciprocated by many who disagree with him.

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#1619648 30-Aug-2016 13:22

MikeAqua:

MikeB4:

is E.T phoning us?

http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/alien-life-or-noise-russian-telescope-detects-strong-signal-from-sun-like-star/

Tricky one that ...

We don't want to be colonised by a technologically superior culture. Ask any indigenous people on earth.

If they aren't technologically superior, and we can communicate but lack the technology to physically reach the same place, that could be cool.

Being human we anthropomorphise everything. We assume a technologically superior civilisation would treat us the way we treat our own indigenous people. Why should it? Just because we are jerks doesn't mean everyone else is.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#1619698 30-Aug-2016 14:56

As a very wise group of men once said "So remember when you're feeling very small & insecure, how amazing and unlikely is your birth, and pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space, cause there's bugger all down here on Earth."

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#1619703 30-Aug-2016 15:09

joker97: And Neil dgT knows everything. When someone claims they know everything they ain't got much left in the tank.

When did he claim that?

I avoid falling into the trap of "scientism" and posting endless Tyson memes on BookFace, but plenty of times he's said suggested the opposite of what you just said...

"The day our knowledge of the cosmos ceases to expand, we risk regressing to the childish view that the universe figuratively and literally revolves around us."

"I never want you to quote me citing my authority as a scientist for your knowing something. If that's what you have to resort to I have failed as an educator."

“Science works on the frontier between knowledge and ignorance. We’re not afraid to admit what we don’t know. There’s no shame in that. The only shame is to pretend that we have all the answers.”

My very metal Doctor Who theme

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#1619715 30-Aug-2016 15:38

MikeB4:

is E.T phoning us?

http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/alien-life-or-noise-russian-telescope-detects-strong-signal-from-sun-like-star/

Very unlikely. The observation rates a 0 (none) to 1 (insignificant) on the SETI Rio scale - which goes up to 10. Someone reported that it rated 2 on the Rio scale - I'm damned if I can see how they got it that high.

The other very unlikely one with the amusing but improbable "ring-world" hypothesis was a least interesting and still unexplained. This one seem to be front page news - but it's not very interesting at all as it's a single blip which could be explained by far more mundane things than being a "sign" that ET is sending a signal.

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#1619717 30-Aug-2016 15:39

Geektastic:

I always wonder, when they say that the universe is expanding, what they think it is expanding into i.e., if the universe were a balloon being inflated in a box, what is the box?

It is difficult to comprehend when you are a hologram.

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