Gareth Morgan is a genius

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#1684667 8-Dec-2016 14:41

Rikkitic:

Geektastic:

He's a certifiable loon.

His idea of 'fair' seems to be the usual left wing one of dragging everyone down to the lowest common denominator.

As opposed to the right wing one of elevating a tiny elite above everyone else?

C'mon folks... we all know that neither of these positions represents the position of either left or right. Let's stick to facts and objectivity rather than projecting imagined positions for the opposition to supposedly defend.

My own view is that GM has the right idea (the key thing is to reduce the inequality in NZ), or at least says the right thing.

However, his tax policy won't improve that situation at all. It won't make education or health more available to the poor. In fact, I think it would make things worse. Landlords and corporates, can subtract the costs of home ownership (depreciation, insurance, rates, repairs and maintenance) from their rental income. Individuals (and especially the poorer) can't subtract those costs from their imputed rent, so will be relatively worse off.

Fred99

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#1684668 8-Dec-2016 14:45

Geektastic:

Or going for equality of opportunity rather than equality of outcome - the former being possible, the latter impossible.

Just my observation, equality of opportunity is mainly myth, but at least it's worth pursuing.

Problem is that I don't think many people believe the myth any more, you'd be able to accurately pick tomorrows losers and winners from the address on their birth certificate, surnames and parent's occupation.

Always exceptions - the public seem to be enthralled by them, rags to riches and riches to rags stories.

Geektastic

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#1684672 8-Dec-2016 14:49

Fred99:

Geektastic:

Or going for equality of opportunity rather than equality of outcome - the former being possible, the latter impossible.

Just my observation, equality of opportunity is mainly myth, but at least it's worth pursuing.

Problem is that I don't think many people believe the myth any more, you'd be able to accurately pick tomorrows losers and winners from the address on their birth certificate, surnames and parent's occupation.

Always exceptions - the public seem to be enthralled by them, rags to riches and riches to rags stories.

I do not entirely disagree (see Mr Key for example) but once you start profiling you can take that to some dark places in the name of efficiency and economic practicality...!

Dulouz

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#1684673 8-Dec-2016 14:56

Came across this the other day - 'Free people are not equal, and equal people are not free.' Got me thinking.

Amanon

mattwnz

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#1684711 8-Dec-2016 16:15

MikeB4:

Getting back to the issue, Morgan's ideas would strip assets for generations, strip living incomes from Seniors. Take away investments and venture capital, increase poverty, increase unemployment, increase demand on health services, increase homelessness and produce a brain and wealth drain from New Zealand.

Watching the video, I think PHs questions were fair, and were questions I wanted to hear answers to. He wasn't more aggressive than usual. GM was defensive from the offset, (crossed arms etc) which is a pity because I thought some his the policies initially sounded good. But an asset tax is essentially like an estate duty, or reverse mortgage IMO, especially for the elderly who own a home that has been valued highly, though no fault of their own.

He said that people should pay to live in their home, so be taxed on it. But people already paid for the home initally and paid tax if they built it, and people already pay rates and tax on rates. Rates are also essentially a wealth tax. I think a captial gains tax on all property including the family home is more fair, and simplier to admin. Also why should some people have to pay more than others, to live in a home, just because the RV has gone up significantly. Excluding the family home just creates loopholes. But parties such as Labour were wanting to exclude the family home in their last election, because it made it more palatable to voters. But that still didn't work. People are unlikely to vote for a party that brings in new taxes IMO

Geektastic

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#1684728 8-Dec-2016 16:27

It would certainly be a cat astrophe if he is not returned to the home for bewildered multi-millionaires soon....

Rikkitic

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#1684736 8-Dec-2016 16:34

Geektastic:

Rikkitic:

Geektastic:

He's a certifiable loon.

His idea of 'fair' seems to be the usual left wing one of dragging everyone down to the lowest common denominator.

As opposed to the right wing one of elevating a tiny elite above everyone else?

Or going for equality of opportunity rather than equality of outcome - the former being possible, the latter impossible.

I do believe in equality of opportunity to the extent that can be achieved and I do not believe in equality of outcome, which I think is mainly a fiction of the right to discredit the left. I don't know anyone who thinks that would be a good idea.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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MikeB4

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#1684737 8-Dec-2016 16:36

Geektastic:

It would certainly be a cat astrophe if he is not returned to the home for bewildered multi-millionaires soon....

we would be purring along without him

Dingbatt

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#1684738 8-Dec-2016 16:38

Like a canary in a coalmine I'd like to think Gareth is just trying to draw attention to wasted opportunity for wealth creation that the headlong rush into investment housing represents. And he did try to allude to that in his interview, however his example which posited that homeowners should effectively be renting their own homes would have had merit in an economics 101 lecture (or maybe 201) but is lost on most people. Attacking people's wealth creation is a surefire vote loser, just ask any party that raises its head above the parapet and suggests a capital gains tax. And this policy definitely does that.

He also demonstrated that he isn't a politician by his demeanor under attack in the interview. However being a disruptor may be his main aim and other political situations around the world prove how effective that can be.

So is He going to be the Colin Craig or Kim Dotcom character of the 2017 election?

Millionaire....check
Finances own party to have total control..... check
Some kooky, some sensible ideas.....check
An inflated opinion of himself......check

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

MikeB4

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#1684740 8-Dec-2016 16:41

Dingbatt: Like a canary in a coalmine I'd like to think Gareth is just trying to draw attention to wasted opportunity for wealth creation that the headlong rush into investment housing represents. And he did try to allude to that in his interview, however his example which posited that homeowners should effectively be renting their own homes would have had merit in an economics 101 lecture (or maybe 201) but is lost on most people. Attacking people's wealth creation is a surefire vote loser, just ask any party that raises its head above the parapet and suggests a capital gains tax. And this policy definitely does that.

He also demonstrated that he isn't a politician by his demeanor under attack in the interview. However being a disruptor may be his main aim and other political situations around the world prove how effective that can be.

So is He going to be the Colin Craig or Kim Dotcom character of the 2017 election?

Millionaire....check
Finances own party to have total control..... check
Some kooky, some sensible ideas.....check
An inflated opinion of himself......check

Like Craig and Dot Com he doesn't have a whisker of a chance.

He also forgets that buying a home is part of saving for retirement.

Rikkitic

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#1684741 8-Dec-2016 16:41

Geektastic:

Rikkitic:

Geektastic:

He's a certifiable loon.

His idea of 'fair' seems to be the usual left wing one of dragging everyone down to the lowest common denominator.

As opposed to the right wing one of elevating a tiny elite above everyone else?

You're thinking of Communism there just as much as any other form of politics. I have not noticed Comrade Castro or his fellow travellers toiling in Tractor Factory Number 12 for a bowl of gruel and a few roubles to spend in an empty shop...!

I'm no admirer of Castro either but he did achieve a very high standard of free universal health care for his people, not to mention nearly 100% literacy and a high level of education overall. Batista, who I suppose some might classify as a right-wing type, only achieved universal corruption. You don't have to go all the way from one extreme to the other just to prove a point.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

mudguard

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#1684768 8-Dec-2016 17:11

MikeB4:

He also forgets that buying a home is part of saving for retirement.

I don't think it will be for my generation (mid thirties). I honestly cannot see universal super existing by the time I get there. I've read Morgan's Big Kahuna (I forget who co-wrote it). His equity tax makes sense from a fairness point of view, after all, we have GST which is somewhat of an unfair tax, and most other income is taxed. However it would be terribly unpopular given the that possibly the bulk of voters are home owners. However there is potential for drastic change in perhaps another generation when the bulk of the voter base is renting.

On a sidenote, I don't watch Paul Henry because of these type of interviews, my partner watches it every morning, but I tire of adversarial style and just generally talking over his guests.

mattwnz

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#1684811 8-Dec-2016 17:58

Dingbatt: , however his example which posited that homeowners should effectively be renting their own homes

To some degree we are effectively already renting our homes if we own them, as we have to pay rates, (plus body corporate fees, insurance etc) There are people who have to pay over 10k a year on rates, because they happen to live in a high value area and have a high value home, relative to other homes in the area. Rates is effectively a wealth tax already, because much of it bears no relationship to the services it gets from the council.

I don't think he is calling for any capital gains tax is he? Isn't that the whole problem with CGT and loopholes? I think it is solely this asset tax he is after, where assets should earn income. So if you have money, you should put it into something that creates income, which then covers the tax that is paid on it. On the surface, it makes some sense. But applying it to a family home is stupid, because it is impossible for a family home to generate income, unless you are renting out rooms etc.

mudguard

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#1684823 8-Dec-2016 18:25

mattwnz:

But applying it to a family home is stupid, because it is impossible for a family home to generate income, unless you are renting out rooms etc.

I vaguely recall from the book, that you wouldn't pay anything whilst you still had a mortgage. But I could be wrong. I can't remember how they suggested getting around people paying off their mortgage to say $1 and leaving it.

tdgeek

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#1684848 8-Dec-2016 19:20

Satch:

Did anyone see this?

http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/tax-policy-bust-up-gareth-morgan-trades-insults-with-paul-henry-2016120808

In my opinion, Morgan is one of the biggest plonkers (this is the best word I could get through the swear filter). He surely cannot be serious with his tax policy?

Cheers for that.I haven't read the rest of the thread, but it beats most comedy shows. He is a Richard Cranium

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