Tipping? Please no!

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#1786582 23-May-2017 11:39

Linuxluver:

BlueShift: It must be election year. ...

... For Paula Bennett to recommend this for New Zealand is typical of how little this government thinks about pretty much everything. "Light-weight" at the feather end of that spectrum.

All she can see is lower wages for employers....and the workers and other taxpayers can get stuffed (in a word: National).

For me, it's more likely that "they" are 'Oooh, look at shiny object here on the left and please be distracted by it long enough that we can railroad stuff here on the right through the process'.

Maybe NZ needs to invest in amore effective 'nudge unit'.

Please keep this GZ community vibrant by contributing in a constructive & respectful manner.

Geektastic

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#1786589 23-May-2017 11:47

rb99:

Geektastic:

Wiggum:

Linuxluver:

All the crap we were fed about "high costs" was just that: crap. NZ is cheap...and relatively easy.

Wow, what NZ are you living in mate? NZ is far from cheap IMO

- Overpriced electricity

- Fuel

- house prices (and of poor quality)

- GST

- And overpriced restaurants. Eating out as a family is ridiculously expense nowadays and we have cut it down to not more than every fortnight.

I could go on .......

NZ definitely is not cheap for the most part - especially if you require quality rather than cheap junk.

Eating out is ludicrously expensive, with the price vs quality equation seriously out of balance.

I do not really drink alcohol much but I am always stunned by the insane mark-up on booze in restaurants and pubs and the fact that people are willing to pay $60 for wine they could buy in the supermarket for $18 or pay $12 for one beer that costs the same for 4 bottles in the supermarket. It's blatant profiteering and I wonder at the stupidity of people willing to participate in it. Why should a bottle of wine cost 3 times as much just because it is in a restaurant - who purchased it at trade and claimed the GST back to boot?

But surely its because of the extortionate wages owners are forced to pay their staff ?

From several conversations I have had, it is more likely to be landlords and their unrealistic rent expectations.

It's not uncommon in a number of overseas locations for the rent for shops and restaurants to be based to some extent on their profitability. Here, it seems more normal for landlords to just expect large sums regardless of whether the property is in a prime location or whether the tenant's business generates huge profits.

robjg63

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#1786598 23-May-2017 11:57

Wiggum:

eracode:

Wiggum:

Linuxluver:

All the crap we were fed about "high costs" was just that: crap. NZ is cheap...and relatively easy.

Wow, what NZ are you living in mate? NZ is far from cheap IMO

- Overpriced electricity

- Fuel

- house prices (and of poor quality)

- GST

- And overpriced restaurants. Eating out as a family is ridiculously expense nowadays and we have cut it down to not more than every fortnight.

I could go on .......

But you want to add to the price of eating out by adding 10-20% by introducing tipping?

I would love to see the minimum wage for waiters/waitresses brought right down. There is no reason we need a minimum wage for these kinds of jobs. These jobs should be aimed at students etc. Not at people trying to support a family.

Man - what a scrooge/I am alright/screw eveyone else attitude!!

The most selfish comment I have ever seen on this site.

Someone who does a job - any job deserves to be paid a respectable amount for their time - and treated with respect. Many wait staff in NZ are already young people - because they dont get paid much. Overseas its noticeable how there are many more adults employed in this area. Not always in countries where tipping is the norm.

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

Aaroona

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#1786615 23-May-2017 12:16

Wiggum:

I would love to see the minimum wage for waiters/waitresses brought right down. There is no reason we need a minimum wage for these kinds of jobs. These jobs should be aimed at students etc. Not at people trying to support a family.

I have to disagree with this.

Genuinely interested to hear your thinking behind this is?
I know many people who are not students, that have been working in this type of industry for years. Some of them have families, majority do not.
There are many, many reasons why someone may be in this type of job. Whether they enjoy it, or not. Maybe they've fallen on hard times after being made redundant and are struggling to get back into their field, or aren't great with numbers, but love interacting with people?

But one of the more important reasons I wouldn't want to do this is; I would much rather have a person working as a [Insert job here] (in this case a waiter/waitress) than using social security to live.
I think minimum wage gives an equal opportunity to people of all skill sets to contribute to our society. Disincentivizing working in certain industries to introduce tips I can only see as being majorly flawed. For every benefit tipping would maybe bring, I'd say there would be an equal or greater disadvantage.

If your server isn't performing as they should, the customer can complain and the Manager can deal with it as they should - this is part of managing any business. You don't need tips to get this result.

While there is a cost to having minimum wage (and whether its set at the correct level or not is another matter), I still think we are ahead of countries like the unites states in this area.
As many have pointed out, tipping is not part of our culture. Sure there are shops that have tip jars etc., but because of the minimum wage, there is no pressure to use these tip jars, and introducing tips in lieu of minimum wage does hide the true cost. (potential tax ramifications which has further flow on effects, impact to working out minimum wages for other industries, etc.)

When I went to Hawaii a couple of years ago, I was perplexed at how cumbersome the tipping system was- to think people do this every day there. Not only because I wasn't used to it, but because I found it also makes general transactions and overall experience a PITA.
When I go to a store, the shelf price is not the price. So why not be up front about that? Build your prices around the cost of your business, like the majority of everyone else.

TL;DR : Introducing tips has some major flow on effects and the benefits of tipping are outweighed by the disadvantages it'd bring.

Wiggum

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#1786616 23-May-2017 12:17

IcI:

Wiggum: I would love to see the minimum wage for waiters/waitresses brought right down. There is no reason we need a minimum wage for these kinds of jobs. These jobs should be aimed at students etc. Not at people trying to support a family.

I used to hear that in Europe you could make a career out of being a waiter. That certainly contradicts your comment.

Thats true. But without tips its a different story.

dafman

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#1786623 23-May-2017 12:28

Wiggum:

I would love to see the minimum wage for waiters/waitresses brought right down. There is no reason we need a minimum wage for these kinds of jobs. These jobs should be aimed at students etc. Not at people trying to support a family.

And students aged, say 8 to 10 years should be exceptionally cheap. And why not eliminate the regulations around maximum shift times, meal breaks, etc

Just for "these kind of jobs" though.

frankv

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#1786626 23-May-2017 12:34

I don't believe it's up to us. It's up to the restaurant owner/manager to "give waiters/waitresses the opportunity to earn a little more for working harder, and bettering their customer service" and generate more profit for the restaurant. There's no law that says they have to be paid the same rate. So, in fact, the problem is the short-sighted greed of restaurant managers who choose not to pay good staff better.

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DarthKermit

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#1786628 23-May-2017 12:39

Christ, I can't believe that EFTPOS terminals are being programmed to 'helpfully' add a tipping percentage to the bill. I presume this will just be for eateries, as they alone (so far!) seem to encourage the tipping culture.

If I go buy $20 of petrol, will the EFTPOS machine add say $2.00 on for service? What service anyway; all they do is take your money.

Wiggum

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#1786635 23-May-2017 12:50

dafman:

And students aged, say 8 to 10 years should be exceptionally cheap. And why not eliminate the regulations around maximum shift times, meal breaks, etc

Just for "these kind of jobs" though.

Some students are exceptionally cheap already. My oldest girl, 13, does a paper run. She does not make much money, and what she gets is far less than the minimum wage per hour. Some may say that those companies are abusing the system. I look at it another way, its teaching my daughter the value of money, and how to work for it. Should these companies be forced into paying the minimum wage for "these kind of jobs" then "these kind of jobs" will go away.

BlueShift

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#1786636 23-May-2017 12:52

I'd be interested to hear from any employers, especially hospo types like @nate on their views.

It can't be that hard for an employer to get a reasonable idea of which staff are performing at a higher level, and to compensate them suitably.

As opposed to letting the young, white, good-looking staff get the tips regardless of their actual performance.

I'd imagine there are also KPIs that employers would value and prefer to encourage over ones that customers would tip for - upselling the menu and refilling the drinks more often for example.

cddt

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#1786646 23-May-2017 13:11

My employer recently billed a government department $37k for a couple of weeks of my work. They were very pleased with the service I provided.

Do you think Paula Bennett will be happy to pay me a tip directly? Cash preferred. I think 20% is fair based on how exceptional my service was.

Where does it end?

jonathan18

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#1786647 23-May-2017 13:11

Wiggum:

Some students are exceptionally cheap already. My oldest girl, 13, does a paper run. She does not make much money, and what she gets is far less than the minimum wage per hour. Some may say that those companies are abusing the system. I look at it another way, its teaching my daughter the value of money, and how to work for it. Should these companies be forced into paying the minimum wage for "these kind of jobs" then "these kind of jobs" will go away.

I'll certainly not be encouraging my kids, when they get to that age, to take on such jobs. To me that's not teaching my kids the value of money, but rather teaching them it's ok to be screwed by The Man. Better that they put that time into something more valuable and rewarding in other ways.

I'd suggest this seems to be an ever-increasing view amongst parents (or indeed kids) as paper and flyer distribution companies become tighter and tighter in what they pay (or increase the amount of work for the same pay), as nearly every single person I see delivering leaflets or the local freebie papers is an adult, I'd imagine in many cases aiming to supplement their benefit. While it'll be unfortunate if these guys lost their job, in principle I'd have no problem with such companies being forced to pay the minimum wage.

Geektastic

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#1786648 23-May-2017 13:12

Wiggum:

IcI:

Wiggum: I would love to see the minimum wage for waiters/waitresses brought right down. There is no reason we need a minimum wage for these kinds of jobs. These jobs should be aimed at students etc. Not at people trying to support a family.

I used to hear that in Europe you could make a career out of being a waiter. That certainly contradicts your comment.

Thats true. But without tips its a different story.

I think it depends on where you are.

For example, the UK does not have a culture of tipping other than for going above and beyond: waiters etc live on what they get as pay and always have, even before socialist ideas like minimum wages.

cddt

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#1786649 23-May-2017 13:15

MikeB4:

I came across two restaurants wanting tips on a recent trip to Paihia and Russell. One in Paihia had tip jars but the restaurant in Russell had on their account and payment screen a prompt to add 20% tip. I refuse on principle and I challenged the Russell they said it was added by the EFTpos company. That sounded like BS to me.

The owner would have had the option to enable it when the provider set up the system for them. It would have been requested by the owner and he probably told the staff to blame the eftpos company if anyone asked.

Chances are the business owner is keeping the tips for himself, and the staff aren't seeing a cent.

I've been in some restaurants in Auckland where the staff member has skipped past the tip option for me without asking. That's appreciated! :)

Geektastic

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#1786653 23-May-2017 13:15

DarthKermit:

Christ, I can't believe that EFTPOS terminals are being programmed to 'helpfully' add a tipping percentage to the bill. I presume this will just be for eateries, as they alone (so far!) seem to encourage the tipping culture.

If I go buy $20 of petrol, will the EFTPOS machine add say $2.00 on for service? What service anyway; all they do is take your money.

I read this morning that UK petrol sellers are working on introducing surge pricing at the petrol pump - buy petrol at busy times, pay more for it! So adding tips might be next!

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