The dumbing down of services via the internet

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nunz

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#2038383 15-Jun-2018 16:30

Benjip:

nunz:

Latest powerpoint. Dumbed down. Today I need to do a presentation from a laptop, in a site with no internet connection. Powerpoint viewer is no longer available - now you need an app for ios, windows 10 app or google / android. MS answer is to run it from the PowerPoint viewer online. Well DUH!!! No internet connection. Thank goodness for open office. it rendered it for me off line.

Dont even get me started on pivot tables online. Or should I say lack of tables online.

******

Face recognition - doesn't work . 'Always on' via face recognition = failure. Ask HP what happened when they did face recognition. They got slapped for racism as black faces weren't recognizable (lack of contrast or something like that)

****

I'm not gonna bother replying to the "back in my day" rant about skyrockets and KFC, but I will reply to the items quoted above as I have actual experience with them.

You do realise that Office 365 lets you download actual, real software for Windows and Mac, right? I have Word, Excel, OneNote, and Powerpoint, and they all work perfectly offline (on Mac). So I'm not quite sure why you had an issue using those offline. Pivot tables? They're definitely in Excel on my Mac.

And "face recognition - doesn't work" – well I must be the only one in the world (lucky me!) who has a perfectly functioning iPhone X with Face ID. Black faces not being recognisable? That's obviously just awful hardware/software from HP – Apple uses an African American dude on their Face ID marketing materials, so I imagine there are no issues there.

It sounds to me like you are just having issues moving with the times (or you're refusing to). Sorry if it upsets you but things aren't going to slow down any time soon, in fact it's the opposite. As an example, in most areas of the US you can now even get cars on subscription – pay your $2k per month and you can grab/swap a new Porsche of your choosing whenever you feel like it. You'll probably say that's a ridiculous idea because "back in your day" you'd pony up to the dealership with a bag full of notes and coins and pay outright for your new car.

Look at the issues raised with Office 365. They want you to use online powerpoint to run presentations. you cannot use an offline powerpoint and package it - like you used to. You cant do that with the online or downloaded versions of the software. The ability to do an offline presentation off a pendrive or CDROM is gone. Thats retrograde. MS is the ones saying do it online. not me.

shared Excel - online - no pivot tables - yet they are pushing for online services harder and harder. My argument is don't go there. It leaves you with less functionality and loses control.

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you wrote. >And "face recognition - doesn't work" – well I must be the only one in the world (lucky me!) who has a perfectly functioning iPhone X with Face ID. Black faces not being recognisable? That's obviously just awful hardware/software from HP – Apple uses an African American dude on their Face ID marketing materials, so I imagine there are no issues there.

i wouldn't use face ID (let alone i-slave apples) - They are a retrograde step security wise.: https://www.wired.com/story/10-year-old-face-id-unlocks-mothers-iphone-x/

Apple admits family members can be mistaken. The people most likely to invade your privacy and want to get into your phone are family members. They are also the ones who can most likely break in -- eeer sorry - be let in by apple.

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As for not keeping up with the times. I've got no facebook (if i want to stalk people and claim to be their friends I'l put on my creepy flasher coat and hit the local parks), no twitte.r Hell - I've seen the crap floating about in twitter. Very little worth my time. I do old fashioned wood work, can build a fire from nothing and know more than I care to know about all sorts of natural stuff outside.

BUT - today I rejigged an old laptop to use the latest protocols for WMV export to allow the latest in two brands of cars to play music on their systems. I also set up wireless charging, bluetooth connections, hands free voice and command in the cars as well. I set up two new phones, connected multiple services and ensured data was highly secured. I've also hacked my way into Windows 10 system to recover over written data, broken security to see lost data, Set up multisite VPN and peer to peer networks and run a long range wireless connection.

today alone i have shown more tehnological skill and ability on new stuff than almost any two youngsters working for goodness knows how many of the tech companies that charge like wounded bulls. I'm happy to wipe the floor skills wise - coz I can. I'm up to date with securing websites, mail services and devices. I know more about hacking passwords than 99% of most people and kick ass with most technology. I've forgotten more than most juniors will ever know and am constantly working with some of the latest tech. But I also recognize that bleeding edge technology will cut deep and you will bleed. conservative approach to clients needs.

Todays hit list of devices I've worked with include IOS, OSX, OS9, Linux (3 types), Windows 10, Windows 7, Windows XP,Android. out of date? I dont think so.

Just because i claim cloud services actually dumb us down and cause us to need a level of skills commensurate with a beginner IT noob you think I'm backwards? You obviously have no idea who i am or what i can do. you've also forgotten the beauty of where tech came from and the huge control corporate are exercising to gain control. Even hacker culture is going. I delight in hacker spaces - one of the last bastions of youngsters breaking stuff while trying new stuff out. Its fantastic. But cloud services? Call it the internet for dummies. And I aint no dummy.

you say: > just having issues moving with the times (or you're refusing to).

My argument isn't troglydyte. I'm not saying slow down. I'm saying speed up. Cloud services are the dumbest stuff around (on the whole) . don't do the dumb , same as others stuff. Be better. That's not an argument to not move forward, its an argument to move forward better than we are.

I'm looking forward. Calling the issues we face. Cloud services aren't - they want you to be less than you are now.

Handle9

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#2038417 15-Jun-2018 19:07

If you are as good as you claim to be then you know there are always alternatives that can be used. I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is other than showing off and soap boxing.

eracode

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#2038446 15-Jun-2018 21:31

@nunz It occurs to me that if you have enough time to type this large number of incredibly long posts, you would have time to balance your Cash Book - given that you know how the bank operates. 😁

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

ripdog

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#2038466 15-Jun-2018 23:19

About the powerpoint issue: If current powerpoint is missing a feature, why not just install the old version of Office? With your stated IT creds, I'm sure you'll find that pretty easy.

I'm unsure why you'd want to do that, though. How often do you have to do a presentation on a computer with no internet AND no powerpoint installed? It's an extremely niche situation...

In more general, the issue of assumptions in software design and one-size-fits-all: The software companies are fully aware that one size does not fit all - but it generally fits enough people that it is no longer profitable for the company to continue to maintain the unpopular feature in question. Remember, in software development, features have cost! Office is very old and super complex software which needs constant refactoring and modernization to keep it competitive. The powerpoint-bundling feature you are complaining about seems to me like the kind of feature which would be difficult to maintain in the face of internal Office restructuring, and only useful in sufficiently niche situations that it was not worth the cost of fixing to work on the new core.

The good news is that you're not forced to use any (well, except maybe your bank - but you can still visit a branch generally) cloud services at all! The open-source world is still working hard at providing free, super-customizable alternatives to almost every piece of proprietary software/services you use. If you don't like it, complaining is fine, but you are free to take control of your own life and find something which does what you want instead.

UHD

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#2038474 15-Jun-2018 23:53

Back when it was actually necessary to manually balance your cashbook the bank would only send you a statement in the post a month after the fact. You're lucky banks allow you to see more recent information but you should not be balancing right up to the day especially with credit card transactions.

If you're so good with money then just use direct credit and you can see everything immediately online. :)

Rikkitic

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#2038563 16-Jun-2018 11:00

There are almost always ways to find creative solutions to things like this. I do it all the time. But I also think @nunz has a valid point. By limiting options and reducing flexibility people are channeled into increasingly narrow dumbed-down choices. Maybe we end up with a society of functional illiterates who can only communicate via YouTube video while a small elite keeps things ticking over. That seems to be the direction things are going.

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nunz

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#2038665 16-Jun-2018 14:05

eracode: @nunz It occurs to me that if you have enough time to type this large number of incredibly long posts, you would have time to balance your Cash Book - given that you know how the bank operates. 😁

Handle9 If you are as good as you claim to be then you know there are always alternatives that can be used. I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is other than showing off and soap boxing.

@Handle9 & @eracode : You have both been rude. I would suggest you take a seat in the corner, open your ears and listen closely - you may learn something from your betters.

The reason I listed my days activities is because @Benjip accused me of being unable or unwilling to move forward. The sole purpose of that post was to show - actually quite the opposite is the case. Put it back in context, read the thread from the beginning and you wont say things that look dumb.

Eracode - If you had bothered to read the posts, and its obvious you haven't, you would realise I HAVE balanced my cashbook - which is how i discovered there were issues with the banks system. You have jumped in with mouth wide open and completely missed the basics of the thread.

Handle9 - So you think there are alternatives to the banks online system? Really? Like what? Paper versions? Hmm - that would be a retrograde step and you cant import the transactions into a cashbook. So what is YOUR suggestion as a better option? I am all ears to hear your pearls of wisdom?

If you don't like what i write - my answer is simple. bugger off and read something else - no one makes you read what i write and being rude is just -- well rude -- your mothers should have taught you better.

Handle9

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#2038678 16-Jun-2018 14:13

The condescension and arrogance of this thread is really something to behold. Calling someone else rude is the biggest case of the pot calling the kettle black I've seen in a while.

eracode

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#2038679 16-Jun-2018 14:17

@nunz I stopped reading your posts because TLDR.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

nunz

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#2038680 16-Jun-2018 14:17

Rikkitic:

There are almost always ways to find creative solutions to things like this. I do it all the time. But I also think @nunz has a valid point. By limiting options and reducing flexibility people are channeled into increasingly narrow dumbed-down choices. Maybe we end up with a society of functional illiterates who can only communicate via YouTube video while a small elite keeps things ticking over. That seems to be the direction things are going.

Ever seen Idiocracy? Not sure if it was humour or prophesy. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/ Not the greatest movie but does bring up some thoughts.

nunz

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#2038681 16-Jun-2018 14:18

eracode: @nunz I stopped reading your posts because TLDR.

But yet you felt qualified to comment. Ignorance is bliss.

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nunz

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#2038682 16-Jun-2018 14:20

Handle9:

The condescension and arrogance of this thread is really something to behold. Calling someone else rude is the biggest case of the pot calling the kettle black I've seen in a while.

Where was i rude? Please enlighten me.

eracode

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#2038684 16-Jun-2018 14:52

nunz:
eracode: @nunz I stopped reading your posts because TLDR.

But yet you felt qualified to comment. Ignorance is bliss.

Not at all, actually. As a retired Chartered Accounant and former bank employee, I felt very well qualified to understand your initial few posts. Then the TLDR set in.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

nunz

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#2038685 16-Jun-2018 14:55

ripdog:

About the powerpoint issue: If current powerpoint is missing a feature, why not just install the old version of Office? With your stated IT creds, I'm sure you'll find that pretty easy.

I'm unsure why you'd want to do that, though. How often do you have to do a presentation on a computer with no internet AND no powerpoint installed? It's an extremely niche situation...

...

The good news is that you're not forced to use any (well, except maybe your bank - but you can still visit a branch generally) cloud services at all! The open-source world is still working hard at providing free, super-customizable alternatives to almost every piece of proprietary software/services you use. If you don't like it, complaining is fine, but you are free to take control of your own life and find something which does what you want instead.

Many of my clients are using hybrid systems because the cloud services do not meet their needs. Take SAP. Xero and Online MYOB are no where near enterprise ready compared to SAP. Unfortunately SAP is going cloud based, and the charges are moving accordingly. Also you are on a common code base normally. That kills custom mods.

As for offline being less often used - not globally. globally offline is essential as there is not the bandwidth required. Many of my clients work in weird places. There are also places in Nz I visit regularly where I cannot access the internet - and some of them are in the middle of Chch. I was in Avonhead yesterday and had complete 3/4g failure. Had to get physical connection run to work. ditto Linwood. There are weird shadows in the coverage (within 400metres of a tower of all places). Many of my clients are in weird places. offline is essential.

Great example: Kiosk type screen / PC. No network, no internet connection and office is not installed. package a presentation, sneakernet it to the device and it works (or used to).

Progress should keep what worked intact and build forward - not retrograde systems. Cloud systems dumb things down.

nunz

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#2038692 16-Jun-2018 15:09

UHD:

Back when it was actually necessary to manually balance your cashbook the bank would only send you a statement in the post a month after the fact. You're lucky banks allow you to see more recent information but you should not be balancing right up to the day especially with credit card transactions.

If you're so good with money then just use direct credit and you can see everything immediately online. :)

The issue is this:

Common sense / Best practice accounting states:

Opening balance plus transaction = ledger balance.

With credit cards etc - delayed transactions that put a hold on money shows as:

Ledger Balance - money on hold / pending transactions = available balance.

What Westpac are doing is invisible transactions - stuff they have removed from the ledger balance but that don't show. That's wrong!!

Cashbooks like Cashbook Complete let you import transactions and you then confirm there are no issues via checking your balance with the banks balance. If the bank is doing its job then all the transactions you can see are imported in and you will match ledger balance. However your available balance will be different if there is money on hold / pending transactions. There is never a point in the process that your ledger balance should not match transactions. EVER!!! It is wrong!! It breaks basic accounting process / good process / best practice.

If you cannot trust your balance to match your bank you can never be sure you are correct. Westpac does not do running totals. They only give you the final balance so you need it to be accurate. You cannot delay three days - as in three days time the invisible transactions will show but the ledger balance will have moved on with new entries.

BTW - I never claimed i was good with money - i just know how ledger systems should work. The time I put aside to do accounting and tax I find really hard. I am not by nature good at paper work and that type of process. when I sit down to do it I do not expect the banks to be incorrect. The chances of me getting back to an aborted process (say three days later) is fairly low. I really really really suck at paper work and process.

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