School costs

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Networkn
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#2164712 21-Jan-2019 13:03

chimera:

If you have the time to assist doing this EVERY week, then good for you. I'm too busy working and paying tax to contribute towards the rest of the education system.

I am busy working and paying taxes as well, I guess it's a matter of priorities and individual circumstance.

The problem really goes all the way back to central govt priorities... now why would the government spend anymore on education when they know that most people pay for school donations in the first place? Of course they won't increase their education spending and get rid of school "donations". It's money for nothing for them, less for them to fork out and spend elsewhere. A school donation is effectively an annual education tax, no more, no less. The choice I make is to take a stand and not pay it. I don't subscribe to the pressure of "compulsory donations" in an education system that should be funded for entirely by the tax I pay (however as mentioned, extra curricular activities outside of my child's basic education I am happy to assist by a cost or extra fund-raising - again, it's about CHOICE)

You *can* choose not to make your donation to the school, your wife overrules you.

You can choose to send your kid to school without a device, they will share the pool of shared devices. If the cost of a uniform is too onerous there are a *lot* of options. No judgement in that last comment for the record, I 100% understand.

If everyone doesn't pay the "donation" then the Government will be forced to come up with the money to cover the shortfall, or the standard of education will drop. If they have to come up with the money there are only two ways to do this:

1) Increase taxes

2) Reduce or remove spending on other things like healthcare, roads, etc.

Which would you prefer?

networkn

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#2164714 21-Jan-2019 13:04

Fred99:

Apart from the fund-raising aspect, I think most of the reason for school uniforms is based on notions of breaking the spirit/forcing conformity and a lame attempt by paranoid adults to suppress the impact of adolescent hormones.

LOL WHAT!?

Jase2985

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#2164737 21-Jan-2019 13:24

networkn:

Basic education is free, better education isn't.

lol, what makes your kids education at a private school better than that of someone's at a public school? apart from paying a lot of money for it.

paying the money doesn't guarantee a better outcome at the end, it just affords more opportunities and more often than not social networks. doesn't mean its a better school for better education. can get just as good an education at a public school.

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#2164740 21-Jan-2019 13:29

Jase2985:

networkn:

Basic education is free, better education isn't.

lol, what makes your kids education at a private school better than that of someone's at a public school? apart from paying a lot of money for it.

paying the money doesn't guarantee a better outcome at the end, it just affords more opportunities and more often than not social networks. doesn't mean its a better school for better education. can get just as good an education at a public school.

Ironically, the people I know in my age group (A lot of people) who went to Private schools. E.G: Kings, St Kents, Cuthberts, Kristin, Carmel all have the lowest level of respect for other humans and things in general, some of the worst manners and highest expectations. Most of them lack in logic and general problem solving. I am mostly exposed to more social circles of people rather than the lesser social ones.

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#2164742 21-Jan-2019 13:30

HcoNmeM:

Agreed.. I have 2 kids at Intermediate now.. $400 for uniform.. then stationary.. then school trips.. then photocopying bs fee..

Education is soo under funded.. instead of 5G mobile network.. a flag change.. ffs all the other crap our government spend money on.. spend it on our kids..

There's so many kids out there failing.. and they didn't even get a chance..

The flag referendum was important, and in the grand scheme of things a tiny piece of government spending. The NZ public voted to hold this referendum (several parties put forward the idea, these parties were voted in).

The government spends around 14.1 billion a year on education, how many extra minutes of spending will 21.5 million get you.

Don't forget the 15 billion on health, or the 30 billion on social welfare.

How much more of the tax payers money do you want to spend on "the kids" over what we are spending now? How much extra do you want to tax people to pay for this?

chimera

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#2164743 21-Jan-2019 13:31

networkn:

Basic education is free, better education isn't. Donations to the school are not mandatory, if you don't give them your child may not go to the school show, or on field trips, but that isn't any different from financial benefit in any other part of life.

What do you define as a "better education?" I hope by "better education" you mean the CHOICE a child makes AFTER they leave college and pay for a "better education" at University or similar. Because if you mean a better education via money spent at private schools, or donations made to public schools, then you are WAY off the mark.

Secondly you've totally contradicted yourself? Donations are not mandatory - correct, but my child would miss out on any event if I do NOT pay school donations? Utter rubbish. Otherwise this would make the donation mandatory. They only miss out on extra activities that are not part of the core education curriculum. Schools shows, field trips etc are NOT paid for via school donations.

If you genuinely can't afford uniforms, there are options. There isn't really truly any reason kids can't go to school and learn the basics.

I do understand it's challenging, and I am not unsympathetic. I was raised in a household where we couldn't afford *anything* and I am fortunate my kids will not have the same issues to the same degree, but I think people need to be critical appropropriately with things like school fees, uniforms etc. I see people giving away uniforms on neighbourly frequently, or if not free, cheaper than mufti clothes at least. There are options. On principle, once our kids are in uniforms, we will not be selling them, we will give them away to help others. There is plenty of it around.

For example, devices, they are "mandatory" in "device" classrooms at our school, but kids who can't afford it, share the 5 "classroom" devices. They are meeting the education standard still, but missing out on having an indivual device. One kid who is in that situation that my son is friends with from another class, won a bunch of education performance awards end of last year, so it's not essential by any means to have your own device. My daugher isn't in a device class this year, my son is.

I was also raised and sent to school by my parents who were in a slightly above middle income bracket. I did well enough at school, did better at uni and now am in a job deemed in an upper income bracket. I can afford to pay - however that doesn't mean I should just resign to the fact that "I can afford it, so I'll just pay it". Sometimes in life you have to take a stance on principle, and in this case, school donations I am completely opposed too. Sure in theory the school may miss out on a few hundred dollars more, but where do we draw the line when we also have over the top uniform prices and mandatory devices on top?

The problem in this country is kiwi's are just too lay back - we take everything at face value, we moan and groan and grumble about the ridiculous price of things in the background, but don't do anything about it. Well my "doing something about it" is not paying school donations - and in this case I'm not paying it because of aforementioned exorbitant costs of other things. How much of a kick back do you reckon schools already get on Uniforms! https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11940745

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Coil

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#2164746 21-Jan-2019 13:37

chimera:

The problem in this country is kiwi's are just too lay back - we take everything at face value, we moan and groan and grumble about the ridiculous price of things in the background, but don't do anything about it. Well my "doing something about it" is not paying school donations - and in this case I'm not paying it because of aforementioned exorbitant costs of other things. How much of a kick back do you reckon schools already get on Uniforms! https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11940745

This, Slightly off topic but so true, We are too busy sitting here whinging on a forum while the French are out there in yellow vests burning down their own bloody houses and shops to prove a point.

networkn

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#2164749 21-Jan-2019 13:43

Jase2985:

networkn:

Basic education is free, better education isn't.

lol, what makes your kids education at a private school better than that of someone's at a public school? apart from paying a lot of money for it.

paying the money doesn't guarantee a better outcome at the end, it just affords more opportunities and more often than not social networks. doesn't mean its a better school for better education. can get just as good an education at a public school.

I mean, a basic education meaning the bare minimum that a public school could provide without any external extra funding. The extra money adds things like better equipment, extra classroom facilities, more field trips etc. I think those are beneficial. An education isn't JUST about reading and math and spelling. At school our kids learn about healthy eating, looking after the planet etc. Those subjects weren't covered in my school career, but I don't doubt the benefit.

I was not comparing Public to Private school. It's unlikely either of our kids will go to private school. That's an entirely different topic.

networkn

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#2164766 21-Jan-2019 14:05

chimera:

What do you define as a "better education?" I hope by "better education" you mean the CHOICE a child makes AFTER they leave college and pay for a "better education" at University or similar. Because if you mean a better education via money spent at private schools, or donations made to public schools, then you are WAY off the mark.

Secondly you've totally contradicted yourself? Donations are not mandatory - correct, but my child would miss out on any event if I do NOT pay school donations? Utter rubbish. Otherwise this would make the donation mandatory. They only miss out on extra activities that are not part of the core education curriculum. Schools shows, field trips etc are NOT paid for via school donations.

Donations aren't mandatory, your child will not be denied time in a classroom as a result of you not paying for your donation.

All schools I have been to, and the ones my kids have attended and my siblings kids, the donation contributes to the "extras". If your school handles that differently, so be it.

What do you think happens to the $x00 donation you make? You understand it's used to educate your kids, not so that the Principal can pay for a holiday to the Bahamas, or so the PM can buy herself a nice new car? You do get that right?

I was also raised and sent to school by my parents who were in a slightly above middle income bracket. I did well enough at school, did better at uni and now am in a job deemed in an upper income bracket. I can afford to pay - however that doesn't mean I should just resign to the fact that "I can afford it, so I'll just pay it". Sometimes in life you have to take a stance on principle, and in this case, school donations I am completely opposed too. Sure in theory the school may miss out on a few hundred dollars more, but where do we draw the line when we also have over the top uniform prices and mandatory devices on top?

Lots to address here and getting off topic, however, without these donations you go back to my earlier points, what other services do you want the Government to cut to cover the $x00 per kid that you donate now multiplied by however many kids do or don't pay? Healthcare? Roads? Or is there a magic tree of money you know about that the rest of us apparently are oblivious to? Of course, if you would prefer a tax increase......

I'd be very surprised if the costs of putting your kids in a uniform for the year was anywhere NEAR the cost of dressing them in mufti.

Devices are *not* mandatory in public schools. You can send your kid to school without them and they will share from the school supplied ones or be put into a non device class. We spent $500 on a Chromebook for my son, he is into his third year with them shortly, and for $150 a year, I consider him having his own device worthwhile. Yeah, it makes me wince a little spending the money.

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#2164811 21-Jan-2019 15:15

BlueShift:

I was on the BOT of my kids' primary school. There was a sizable minority of parents that were dead set on getting a uniform implemented.

We ran a referendum of all the school families which came up about 40% in favour, so we didn't bring in a uniform. A few years later, after the BOT elections, there was a largely new Board in place, five minutes later, there was a new referendum on bringing in a school uniform. Again, about 40% in favour. This time the Board got cunning: they defined a uniform, found suppliers etc, then announced a voluntary school uniform for everyone that wanted one. In the school of 700ish kids, <10 ever turned up in uniform, and I bet they loooooved their parents. Never heard another peep about uniform referenda.

The question I always ask is: How does this school uniform improve the students' learning outcomes?

iirc theres a handful of US studies about wearing uniforms everyday and the likelyhood of teenage pregnancy, truancy, completion rates of school term etc. Have not read them myself to see if that data is a reasonable sample but I assume some had a clear agenda.

I went to a high school with a expensive uniform(logo jersey and blazer and sports gear) and they handled the cost issue with a secondhand store onsite pre-term where you could donate gear to them and resold it for $10-25 an item(drycleaned etc) and often gave it away to those they knew couldn't afford it.

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#2164816 21-Jan-2019 15:18

My school outfitters was Harrods, so $90 for a sweatshirt (which is, IMO, sportswear not school uniform) doesn't seem especially outrageous.

Of course, I don't need to buy it.

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networkn

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#2164818 21-Jan-2019 15:19

Coil:

Ironically, the people I know in my age group (A lot of people) who went to Private schools. E.G: Kings, St Kents, Cuthberts, Kristin, Carmel all have the lowest level of respect for other humans and things in general, some of the worst manners and highest expectations. Most of them lack in logic and general problem solving. I am mostly exposed to more social circles of people rather than the lesser social ones.

Most of these things are not supposed to be taught at school, they are supposed to be taught by the parents. I would suggest the issue isn't where they were educated, but rather what they were learning at home. They are not education issues as much as they are behaviour issues.

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#2164819 21-Jan-2019 15:21

This uniform thing is entirely in control of the schools. They can easily achieve a better cost outcome with equal quality. Maybe not easily. Looks like they don't have the expertise to do it. Someone needs to take a look at this.