The only real way Prince Andrew can clear his name is with a court victory

Forums › Off topic › The only real way Prince Andrew can clear his name is with a court victory

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Ultimate Geek

#2850950 14-Jan-2022 17:45

If he has to fly to the US to get f#$@#d in a courtroom by Guiffre does that mean he has been trafficked?

Ironic.

He seems shady at best a guilty as hell at worst.

Mentioned above is the vile scenario where women accuse men, usually historically, with little to no evidence but a he said she said situation arises.

If they have a genuine complaint im all for women pressing charges, but where it is proven they are crying wolf they should face the same penalty the victim they accused would face for the crime they have accused them of. False accusers usually walk away scot free which is abhorrent.

ezbee

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#2850955 14-Jan-2022 17:56

Even if he does not get proven beyond reasonable doubt, it won't necessarily be a vindication.

Possibly if the whole Jeffrey Epstein thing was treated seriously in Florida or before, then things may not have got further.
His victims having been able to get full satisfaction, and Jeffrey not able to do this again.
Maxwell etc taken down years/decade ago.

https://epsteintimeline.com/

Jeffrey seemed to use his predilection to draw in others for his protection and further his business interests.
His business model so as to speak had a degree of implied blackmail ?
Then you can draw in others due to who you mix with and recommendations from 'great and good', the wealth he was managing.
So he suspiciously got opportunities to evade, and then a sweet deal in Florida.

The security around Royal Family surely would have given warning on background ?
Allegations against Jeffery data back to last millennium, plus gossip.
Royal family being marks for all kinds of stuff surely you would have a lot of situational awareness.

gehenna

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#2850965 14-Jan-2022 18:56

Daynger:

False accusers usually walk away scot free which is abhorrent.

Can you cite your sources for that statement? Feels like hyperbole. Perhaps in the court of public opinion, but wasting police time is a crime, just like the types of abuse being discussed here.

SJB

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#2850973 14-Jan-2022 19:33

Why is the accusation not rape rather than sexual abuse?

Daynger

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#2851016 14-Jan-2022 20:55

gehenna:
Daynger:

False accusers usually walk away scot free which is abhorrent.

Can you cite your sources for that statement? Feels like hyperbole. Perhaps in the court of public opinion, but wasting police time is a crime, just like the types of abuse being discussed here.

Perhaps guilty of a bit of hyperbole, after a bit of google it appears there is not alot of information compiled about false accusations, there are however plenty of stories of men who have lost everything over false accusations and the offender has literally not been charged with anything.

For those on the poorer end of the scale they have to suck it up as there is no restitution or justice.

Eva888

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#2851029 14-Jan-2022 21:16

MikeB4:
Eva888: You can bet her lawyers have advised her to set up the non profit organisation so it doesn’t look as if her and the lawyers are out for money. The fact that she accepted money already to help 'heal' her says enough.

As I said before if he was a supermarket stacker this wouldn’t even be a story. Note the money many of these women make from what is actually a legal form of blackmail. Sleep with me and then I can say whatever I like about the 'ordeal' and my lawyer will cut a deal for millions which I can rinse and repeat a few times more when the cash runs out.

You can’t dump all the responsibility on only one person in the duo when there was consensus until the aroma of money formed in the nose of the aggrieved.

I in no way wish to diminish genuine cases of abuse, male or female and especially where young children are involved I’d like to send them to a country where justice is an eye for an eye or worse.

What a load of victim bashing bilge and misogynist tropes.

Which victim are we talking about here? Since nothing has been proven either one could be a victim.

Lol...As a female with daughters I hardly think the term misogynist fits. Try pragmatic.

neb

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#2851037 14-Jan-2022 22:03

Varkk:
I think the fact he has been stripped of his royal and military titles speaks volumes about how much confidence the Palace has in his case.

It speaks volumes about how much they're worried about it blowing back to them. Several ex-military people who have commented on it, for example, have said his military titles should be severed since they'll bring the regiments he's attached to into disrepute. No mention over whether they thought he was guilty or not.

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neb

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#2851038 14-Jan-2022 22:08

Eva888: She was 17, hardly a minor in these loose times and was there of her own free will amongst other players...for money and fun.

She was just another groupie. The accepted behaviour there is to write your memoirs about it decades later and maybe do some TV interviews, not start complaining about it. She'd have made a lot more money from "I Shagged the Duke of York" than from a court case.

Handle9

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#2851039 14-Jan-2022 22:16

Eva888:
MikeB4:

What a load of victim bashing bilge and misogynist tropes.

Which victim are we talking about here? Since nothing has been proven either one could be a victim.

Lol...As a female with daughters I hardly think the term misogynist fits. Try pragmatic.

Quite a lot has been proven about Epstein and Maxwell. Saying nothing has been proven is both wrong and gross.

gehenna

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#2851054 15-Jan-2022 00:46

neb:
Eva888: She was 17, hardly a minor in these loose times and was there of her own free will amongst other players...for money and fun.

She was just another groupie. The accepted behaviour there is to write your memoirs about it decades later and maybe do some TV interviews, not start complaining about it. She'd have made a lot more money from "I Shagged the Duke of York" than from a court case.

Once again, she was 17. The responsibility was his to not sleep with someone underage (assuming guilty). Your post is abhorrent.

Wheelbarrow01

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#2851056 15-Jan-2022 01:04

gehenna:
Daynger:

False accusers usually walk away scot free which is abhorrent.

Can you cite your sources for that statement? Feels like hyperbole. Perhaps in the court of public opinion, but wasting police time is a crime, just like the types of abuse being discussed here.

There's plenty of examples from both here and across the Tasman where light sentences or sentences of no real consequence have been imposed on false accusers:

Marlborough woman who made false rape allegation was convicted and discharged for making a false statement. The victim of the false allegations was kicked out of his rental home by his female flatmates as a result of the allegations, and he was homeless and living in his car for a time as a result.

In this article, Auckland QC Marie Dyhrberg discusses a case where her taxi driver client was falsely accused of raping a passenger, and was facing jail followed by deportation. It took NZ Police 6 weeks to review the taxi-cam footage which ultimately exonerated her client, but by then he had already lost his job. The accuser should have been charged with attempting to pervert the course of justice which carries a maximum sentence of 7 years in prison. Instead, the accuser was charged with making a false statement, and was discharged without conviction.

A 39 year old woman was sentenced to 12 months' home detention after false rape claim against a former partner. She has subsequently won an appeal against her deportation from New Zealand back to her home country.

In this example from Australia, a woman uppercuts her own face then goes to Police alleging her partner hit her. Partner is arrested and charged, and Police assist the victim to remove valuable items (jewellery etc) from the shared apartment that belong to him. On bail, the male eventually finds CCTV footage of the self assault that exonerates him. Police drop the charges against the male, but do not charge the female for making the false allegations.

Another recent case involves a Victorian man who ‘lost everything' after his former wife accused him of sexual assault, and of leaving knives in her letterbox and sending threatening and pornographic texts to her friend – all of which were eventually proven to be completely false. Even though prosecutors eventually told a Victorian Magistrates Court that the woman fabricated evidence to have him convicted, the state's Director of Public Prosecutions, Kerri Judd QC, has refused to apologise to him or accept he is a victim of crime. Magistrate Peter Reardon said he was shocked to hear the woman had serious charges against her dropped, and demanded an explanation from police.

This woman (an administrative assistant for ACT Police) falsely accused her former partner Dan Jones (a prison officer) of rape. He spent 4 months in prison in constant fear of being recognised and lynched by inmates he used to guard. It took 6 years and $350,000 in legal fees to clear his name. She received a sentence of 3 years but is likely to serve just 2.

I can also cite dozens of articles and reports where women have used 'the system' to make false & unsubstantiated allegations of domestic abuse for the sole purpose of being granted a protection order for no other reason than to deny their former partner access or contact with their children. In these situations, the protection orders are generally granted with no evidence or right of reply. State sanctioned alienation from one's own children is a very powerful and emasculating weapon, and it's one reason that male suicide levels are what they are.

I'm not saying there aren't a$$holes out there that beat their partners (or worse). They're most certainly out there and it's repulsive. But we have to recognise that some women also lie and manipulate to get what they want or to hurt others.

Handle9

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#2851059 15-Jan-2022 01:12

neb:
gehenna: Once again, she was 17.
Pamela Ann Miller, the person in the article I linked to, was also 17. She wrote a book about her experiences ("I'm With the Band"), and gave interviews about it. In addition, the age of consent in NY, where the case is being brought, is 17. I'm not saying it wasn't a bit creepy given the age difference, but you do get the feeling that if it had been someone less high-profile it would have played out very differently.

Ghislaine Maxwell has been convicted of sexual trafficking, including sexual trafficking of a minor.

neb

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#2851060 15-Jan-2022 01:18

Handle9:
Pamela Ann Miller, the person in the article I linked to, was also 17. She wrote a book about her experiences ("I'm With the Band"), and gave interviews about it. In addition, the age of consent in NY, where the case is being brought, is 17. I'm not saying it wasn't a bit creepy given the age difference, but you do get the feeling that if it had been someone less high-profile it would have played out very differently.

Ghislaine Maxwell has been convicted of sexual trafficking, including sexual trafficking of a minor.

Sure, but I'm wondering how they're going to proceed with the case against Andrew if the defence brings what I mentioned up. If she was over the age of consent in NY at the time she was with Andrew then they can claim she's just doing it for the fame/money/whatever, c.f. "I'm with the band". What's their legal argument?

neb

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#2851061 15-Jan-2022 01:21

gehenna: Once again, she was 17. The responsibility was his to not sleep with someone underage (assuming guilty).

Pamela Ann Miller, the person in the article I linked to, was also 17. She wrote a book about her experiences ("I'm With the Band"), and gave interviews about it.

In addition, the age of consent in NY, where the case is being brought, is 17. What's the prosecution angle if the defence uses the above two points as an argument?

I'm not saying it wasn't a bit creepy given the age difference, but you do get the feeling that if it had been someone less high-profile it would have played out very differently.

Handle9

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#2851063 15-Jan-2022 01:34

neb:
gehenna: Once again, she was 17. The responsibility was his to not sleep with someone underage (assuming guilty).
Pamela Ann Miller, the person in the article I linked to, was also 17. She wrote a book about her experiences ("I'm With the Band"), and gave interviews about it. In addition, the age of consent in NY, where the case is being brought, is 17. What's the prosecution angle if the defence uses the above two points as an argument? I'm not saying it wasn't a bit creepy given the age difference, but you do get the feeling that if it had been someone less high-profile it would have played out very differently.

It's not a prosecution, it's a civil suit.

The contention is that she was trafficked and sexually assaulted, you can be of legal age and still be trafficked.

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