Unlimited sick leave

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#2897828 6-Apr-2022 21:32

antonknee:

Given the apparent attitude of one poster who would appear to be management of some kind in this thread, I'm frankly entirely unsurprised that person appears to have an issue with absenteeism amongst their team.

I'd be very concerned with how access to discretionary leave (referring to the policy says x days but managers can give more if they think it's appropriate) as described is managed - you need to be incredibly careful this is not being applied in a discriminatory manner or open to abuse. I speak from experience having seen how badly wrong that can go for a former employer.

Our sick leave is not unlimited, but we do get 30 days available immediately, and 30 new days on every anniversary, and it banks, so it may as well be.

From memory it's a provincial primary industry with a unionised workforce. They typically aren't hotbeds of positive workplace culture and there can be some pretty weird behaviour from employees as well as management.

PsychoSmiley

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#2897900 7-Apr-2022 08:13

Unlimited here, and barely ever touch it. Last place I worked was in Aus and we got 14 days a year and I had accrued some silly number when I left because I think I took like 3 days in 7 years. We also allowed mental health days at their own expense as this was also something done by the former team lead as well. Far easier to just allow people to call up and say 'nah I'm not feeling it today' then have them spin some BS about something to be sick.

qwertee

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#2897901 7-Apr-2022 08:16

Unlimited sick leave at my place of work

No-one seems to be abusing this privilege.
Very helpful for some staff taking time off due to covid without the stress.

1101

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#2897950 7-Apr-2022 10:00

Just wondering

is "unlimited"
paid sick leave, or unpaid sick leave ?

or is it also deducted from accrued annual holiday days/pay

Divhon88

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#2898014 7-Apr-2022 12:44

1101:

Just wondering

is "unlimited"
paid sick leave, or unpaid sick leave ?

or is it also deducted from accrued annual holiday days/pay

I work for a large gov't organisation. We do have unlimited sick leave too. Sadly, A handful of people always find ways to get "hurt or injured" either on the job or outside, everyone can tell and it's very obvious they are milking it.

One was off for more than a year and the day after their return they instantly got the covid. Viola past 7 days they're still off and our expectation is they will now play casino with the long covid cards.

The worst part is they are mostly the Union Delegates.

Our is unlimited paid sick leave. No deduction from any holiday. Every year our sick leave credit resets to 2080hrs.

Kyanar

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#2898131 7-Apr-2022 14:49

It still confuses me that here in Aus and NZ we still have employers giving us 5 and 10 days sick leave per year, and in the US - the bastion of employer tyranny and employee servitude - the new trend is for unlimited PTO (paid time off), with American employees laughing at us because if they worked for an Aus or NZ employer, their current leave balance would be -47 hours.

elpenguino

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#2898136 7-Apr-2022 14:59

Kyanar:

It still confuses me that here in Aus and NZ we still have employers giving us 5 and 10 days sick leave per year, and in the US - the bastion of employer tyranny and employee servitude - the new trend is for unlimited PTO (paid time off), with American employees laughing at us because if they worked for an Aus or NZ employer, their current leave balance would be -47 hours.

Sounds great but what's the legal requirement for a US employer?

I did a search and the first result is from the DOL.

"Currently, there are no federal legal requirements for paid sick leave. "

https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/workhours/sickleave#:~:text=Currently%2C%20there%20are%20no%20federal,does%20require%20unpaid%20sick%20leave.

Is there some legal state requirements?

Dunno, I'm not doing 50 googles.

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Kyanar

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#2898148 7-Apr-2022 15:39

elpenguino:

Sounds great but what's the legal requirement for a US employer?

I did a search and the first result is from the DOL.

"Currently, there are no federal legal requirements for paid sick leave. "

https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/workhours/sickleave#:~:text=Currently%2C%20there%20are%20no%20federal,does%20require%20unpaid%20sick%20leave.

Is there some legal state requirements?

Dunno, I'm not doing 50 googles.

That's not my point. My point is that many employers in a place where they don't have to give you any paid sick leave at all, give out unlimited paid time off (not just sick - we're talking vacation/annual leave too!) - yet here, we get employers who resent even giving out the bare minimum (as evidenced by one poster here who is strongly suspected to be in a managerial capacity), or "generously" allow you to take an extra couple days sick, or even crowdsource leave into a leave bank. You can't exactly plan to be sick, and it's been proven that sick leave limits lead to worse outcomes overall because sick people coming into work spread illnesses and viruses to other employees, as well as encouraging "target" mentality where employees see the sick leave allowance as a target rather than a safety net.

blackjack17

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#2898149 7-Apr-2022 15:45

Kyanar:

It still confuses me that here in Aus and NZ we still have employers giving us 5 and 10 days sick leave per year, and in the US - the bastion of employer tyranny and employee servitude - the new trend is for unlimited PTO (paid time off), with American employees laughing at us because if they worked for an Aus or NZ employer, their current leave balance would be -47 hours.

I wonder how that works for entry level people?

Even for non-entry level people I have heard some pretty horrific stories regarding paid time off (or the lack off). Teachers getting 8 weeks off unpaid after giving birth (and have to prep for every lesson that they have while away).

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Handle9

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#2898150 7-Apr-2022 15:47

Unlimited PTO is not completely unusual in the US but it’s also far from normal. It’s seen as a carrot, usually in professional workplaces. At a guess I’d assume it’s more prevalent in New Zealand than in the US.

Around 25% of US workers have no sick leave whatsoever.

This gives some context:
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/03/12/as-coronavirus-spreads-which-u-s-workers-have-paid-sick-leave-and-which-dont/

MikeAqua

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#2898574 8-Apr-2022 13:39

frankv:

MikeAqua:

Or you happen to run into them at cafe when they are sick.

I take it that you don't agree to the use of sick leave for mental health?

No I'm talking when someone rings in sick claiming a physical illness.

We have separate (and very good) systems for mental health.

I suspect we work with different sorts of people. Again I'm referring to a small subset of waged employees - chancers.

Mike

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#2898600 8-Apr-2022 14:40

I certainly missed having unlimited sick leave when I had heart surgery.

I ended up going back to work way too soon and resigning a few months later.

Loismustdye

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#2898672 8-Apr-2022 16:06

I work in the public Health system for a hospital that has reasonably amusing sick leave situations

The health workforce generally has a limited amount of sick leave each year, whereas when my wife worked in the business/contract support area of the same they all had unlimited sick leave.

Healthcare workers “generally speaking” take the piss. in my department I have 2-3 colleagues that routinely have at least 2 days sick a fortnight (one of these only works 4 days/week and has at least 1 or 2 days a week- let’s just say that very little has been done by the employer over the years this has been ongoing, said individuals always wind up getting the union involved and things get shelved). Anecdotally I know that prior to covid the absenteeism amongst health workers was very high, it’s not unheard of to know of staff that have zero SL balances and wind up on unpaid sick leave numerous times a year. However I also have colleagues who might take 1-2 sick leave days a year and over the years have rather large SL balances.

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#2898674 8-Apr-2022 16:13

Loismustdye:
I work in the public Health system for a hospital that has reasonably amusing sick leave situations

The health workforce generally has a limited amount of sick leave each year, whereas when my wife worked in the business/contract support area of the same they all had unlimited sick leave.

Healthcare workers “generally speaking” take the piss. in my department I have 2-3 colleagues that routinely have at least 2 days sick a fortnight (one of these only works 4 days/week and has at least 1 or 2 days a week- let’s just say that very little has been done by the employer over the years this has been ongoing, said individuals always wind up getting the union involved and things get shelved). Anecdotally I know that prior to covid the absenteeism amongst health workers was very high, it’s not unheard of to know of staff that have zero SL balances and wind up on unpaid sick leave numerous times a year. However I also have colleagues who might take 1-2 sick leave days a year and over the years have rather large SL balances.

My wife worked for DHBs on a big project for two years and left in frustration entirely due to the sort of staff issues you mention!

matisyahu

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#2898677 8-Apr-2022 16:24

blackjack17:

Does any one have unlimited sick leave at their workplace? We are thinking of throwing that in the mix when the next contract negotiations come up later this year.

I had it years ago in one of my jobs straight out of uni and nobody seemed to abuse it, in fact instead of people taking their "5 days leave" regardless of whether they were sick, people only used it when they were actually sick.

How does it work at your workplace and if someone is willing to share the wording of it/policy documents that would be super helpful (even pm if you don't want to make it public).

I used to work for a organisation that provided unlimited sick day which sounded great in theory until you went to use it then they would start asking whether you're keeping yourself healthy etc. HR and management can't seem to grapple with the idea that if someone is sick they're sick, all the broccoli and power walks isn't going to magically change that.

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