As a consumer can I opt out of facial recognition?

Forums › Off topic › As a consumer can I opt out of facial recognition?

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#3001199 25-Nov-2022 09:55

Also, as to the idea that having supermarkets and dairies, etc. share the identities of shoplifters, a lot of them just don't care that they're recognized. Our local dairy has problems with a few kids who just wander in, grab stuff, and wander out, not even trying to conceal their identities.

Everyone, including the police, know who they are, but the kids are too young to face any consequences whatsoever. And if the dairy owner goes after the kids with the hockey stick he has behind the counter, he'll either get done for assault, or have "associates" of the kids make his life a lot worse.

It's more a problem with the justice system than with policing.

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MikeB4

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#3001204 25-Nov-2022 10:08

You don't take away rights and privacy of all citizens to resolve an issue, that is only creating a bigger and more disturbing issue.
A better process would be to address the root cause of what is occuring.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

throbb

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#3001214 25-Nov-2022 10:26

openmedia:
Well it looks like we can make an information request

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/130567786/foodstuffs-using-facial-recognition-tech-at-29-north-island-supermarkets

At the moment, the only way for a consumer to know whether their biometric data had been collected by Foodstuffs was to make a request for that data under the Privacy Act.

Wouldn't you have to give them your Biometric data for them to check to see if they have your biometric data? From what I can see most of the time the data is not linked to a person.

MikeB4

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#3001239 25-Nov-2022 11:02

Gurezaemon:

Also, as to the idea that having supermarkets and dairies, etc. share the identities of shoplifters, a lot of them just don't care that they're recognized. Our local dairy has problems with a few kids who just wander in, grab stuff, and wander out, not even trying to conceal their identities.

Everyone, including the police, know who they are, but the kids are too young to face any consequences whatsoever. And if the dairy owner goes after the kids with the hockey stick he has behind the counter, he'll either get done for assault, or have "associates" of the kids make his life a lot worse.

It's more a problem with the justice system than with policing.

The problem is much deeper than what I have highlighted in your post. I don't feel I can elaborate much without pushing this important thread into the politics sink hole.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

floydbloke

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#3001240 25-Nov-2022 11:03

MikeB4: ......
A better process would be to address the root cause of what is occuring.

We've reached this conclusion before. Pretty much everyone agrees but no-one knows how. Meantime the public has the right to be protected and there do need to be some consequences for perpetrators.

Sometimes I use big words I don't always fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.

MikeB4

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#3001244 25-Nov-2022 11:06

There will be considerable sensitive data gathered and of course data breeches never occur, hmmmm. Of course the grocery duopoly has an impeccable history of ethical behaviour.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#3001262 25-Nov-2022 11:44

hsvhel:

You can opt out by not entering the establishment …

… except at border control at the airport.

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Linux

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#3001282 25-Nov-2022 12:30

I take it you will not visit Sky city then?

I honestly don't care

robjg63

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#3001294 25-Nov-2022 13:16

openmedia:

Well it looks like we can make an information request

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/130567786/foodstuffs-using-facial-recognition-tech-at-29-north-island-supermarkets

At the moment, the only way for a consumer to know whether their biometric data had been collected by Foodstuffs was to make a request for that data under the Privacy Act.

Well assuming it's anonymous - how are they going to find your data?

It's not like you have to give your personal details at the door when you enter and have it matched with your image.

I rather see this as a similar thing to having a security guard at the entrance that is looking for people the supermarket may have banned and stopping them.

This could be people that have threatened or bullied their staff or other customers or damaged supermarket property or shoplifted. In those cases I would rather they stopped them entering premises where I choose to shop. But the electronic system will be more efficient than a person.

The supermarket currently can get more useful information from matching my bank cards with my receipts and seeing what I buy - I don't see anyone going on about that.

There are currently security cameras in lots of places. I wish there were more. Makes it a lot easier to track some of the a*holes that are skulking around our streets these days.

Your phones are constantly tracking you - even if just by cellphone tower triangulation. You leave a trail of electronic transactions every day.

Honestly - not something that worries me.....

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richms

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#3001297 25-Nov-2022 13:20

robjg63:

Well assuming it's anonymous - how are they going to find your data?

It's not like you have to give your personal details at the door when you enter and have it matched with your image.

Thats fine until you use a loyalty card, return an item for a refund, or use special orders etc. All those will get matched unless the place is idiotic.

Richard rich.ms

David321

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#3001298 25-Nov-2022 13:25

I work with this stuff in our company that has stores all over NZ (wont name the company sorry), the software we use uses facial recognition and is combined with number plate recognition (its call Auror), a staff member can flag a person of interest and there number plate can be tied to them also. The next time that person enters the car park or in to the store on foot our security staff get an alert so they can keep an eye on them. If there is something worth reporting to the police its as easy as the click of the button "Report to Police". The police can then use the facial recognition data stored on that person to see if they can be linked to any other incidents in other stores using the same software (something our staff can not do for privacy reasons).

To sum it up, its very effective at preventing shoplifters from stealing stock, but it is concerning that most people seem to have no idea that their facial signature is being captured and many big retailers now. I personally think it should be a requirement to have signage to state that the store is using facial recognition (just like it was/is required for cameras).

As for the legalities, we can capture that data as it is somewhat anonymised (there is no names to the data), it would be like our staff saying "hey here is that guy who always wears the red hat who drives the blue Honda, he has stolen from us in the past, lets keep an eye on him.

And do I think its a bit wrong, it is a bit creepy in a way as to what this could lead to (Chinas social credit always springs to mind!)

_David_

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robjg63

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#3001333 25-Nov-2022 14:08

richms:

robjg63:

Well assuming it's anonymous - how are they going to find your data?

It's not like you have to give your personal details at the door when you enter and have it matched with your image.

That's fine until you use a loyalty card, return an item for a refund, or use special orders etc. All those will get matched unless the place is idiotic.

I assumed they are doing mass scanning at the entrance (maybe wrongly).

They would still have to make an effort to tie your ID to the image. A supermarket has many many people entering each minute.

Unless they are taking images each time a person uses the checkout and matching that to your card details.

Actually - come to think of it, one of the supermarkets has had cameras in the scanners at self checkout for ages that records you while you are there.

I presume to try and make sure you aren't nicking things.

If its at the entrance performing mass scanning I still don't see an issue.

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#3001357 25-Nov-2022 15:41

I hope they take it the level that prevents you even entering the store if they blacklist you.

antant

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#3001450 25-Nov-2022 15:59

mattwnz:

Yet it wasn't an issue when everyone was wearing a mask.

Actually, it did crop up - https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-new-world-store-with-facial-recognition-cameras-reverses-mask-policy/GRLA2UZOH5K53U2IFYBVHBUL5E/

An Auckland supermarket is reversing policy that asked customers to remove their face masks so they could be better scanned by the store's facial recognition software.

The Papakura branch of New World had been enforcing the policy, asking those wearing masks to remove them and put them back on once they were inside, to help combat theft.

mattwnz

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#3001451 25-Nov-2022 16:05

David321:

I work with this stuff in our company that has stores all over NZ (wont name the company sorry), the software we use uses facial recognition and is combined with number plate recognition (its call Auror), a staff member can flag a person of interest and there number plate can be tied to them also. The next time that person enters the car park or in to the store on foot our security staff get an alert so they can keep an eye on them. If there is something worth reporting to the police its as easy as the click of the button "Report to Police". The police can then use the facial recognition data stored on that person to see if they can be linked to any other incidents in other stores using the same software (something our staff can not do for privacy reasons).

To sum it up, its very effective at preventing shoplifters from stealing stock, but it is concerning that most people seem to have no idea that their facial signature is being captured and many big retailers now. I personally think it should be a requirement to have signage to state that the store is using facial recognition (just like it was/is required for cameras).

As for the legalities, we can capture that data as it is somewhat anonymised (there is no names to the data), it would be like our staff saying "hey here is that guy who always wears the red hat who drives the blue Honda, he has stolen from us in the past, lets keep an eye on him.

And do I think its a bit wrong, it is a bit creepy in a way as to what this could lead to (Chinas social credit always springs to mind!)

minority report springs to mind where they could have screens around the store with as you shop offering you special deals for just you. A personal greeting as you enter the store with a virtual store assistant on the screen. A screen at checkout with a VSA reminding you that you haven't purchased something you normally buy. People don't seem to understand the power this info provides.

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