Jury Duty - Employer wants my court payments

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#3075332 12-May-2023 10:12

I remember my jury service in 2012 (as above), I was selected twice, got challenged twice and only ended up being at court for a couple of days - never sat on any jury.

One case (from memory) that came up - not one I was selected for - was a murder trial, and it was going to take 9 weeks. They selected the jury and seated them, right after which someone in the jury said they couldn't commit to doing a 9 week-long trial after all. So they had to go through the entire selection process all over again.

MikeAqua

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#3075387 12-May-2023 11:01

Rikkitic:

My age shields me but I would turn up if required to do so. I would then make clear that I am strongly opposed to the jury system in principle, which would probably disqualify me from sitting on one. The European system of expert judges instead of random amateur nose-pickers is infinitely better in my opinion.

I did that. Calmly and respectfully outlined my ethical objection to the system itself. The judge excused me, until called again.

I saw a quote a while back in a stuff article, by a barrister smugly suggesting that being on a jury was privilege and citizens should not expect be paid their normal daily earnings. The irony of the most expensive person in the room saying that was off the chart. It's one of the most out of touch comment I've seen in quite some time.

Personally, I think jurors should be paid their Average Daily Earnings. That's a standard calculation used to calculate leave payments. It would show very quickly, the true cost of the jury system.

Most of the true cost is currently being born voluntarily by employers. If they didn't do that, many prospective jurors would have to be excused due to financial hardship, or experience financial hardship or just not turn up.

Mike

Silvrav

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#3075426 12-May-2023 12:15

Scott3:

I understand this is pritty common.

Given the payment table is published, I doubt that providing evidence of the amount received is a big deal. But I expect the court would issue you with a payment notice with a breakdown.

https://www.justice.govt.nz/courts/jury-service/payment-and-support/

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As a side note, the Court system really needs to lift to seriously up these numbers, if they want people to be engaged with the process.

I get the payment is just a thank you, rather than a salary/wage replacement, but $31 for half a day is pretty insulting.

Mileage rate of 38c/km is less than half of the IRD's 83c Tier 1 rate.

$80/day for professional childcare is what I was paying for my under 3, back in 2018, Imagine it is really out of touch in 2023.

Interesting breakdown - So I would assume you stay longer than 6pm and/or 9pm you won't have to refund the full amount to your employer? as your employer time is only from say 8 to 5....?
has anyone been in this predicament?

mattwnz

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#3075430 12-May-2023 12:31

Wouldn't that be fair, as the employer would only be paying you to work during certain hours?

mattwnz

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#3075434 12-May-2023 12:48

MikeAqua:

Rikkitic:

My age shields me but I would turn up if required to do so. I would then make clear that I am strongly opposed to the jury system in principle, which would probably disqualify me from sitting on one. The European system of expert judges instead of random amateur nose-pickers is infinitely better in my opinion.

I did that. Calmly and respectfully outlined my ethical objection to the system itself. The judge excused me, until called again.

I saw a quote a while back in a stuff article, by a barrister smugly suggesting that being on a jury was privilege and citizens should not expect be paid their normal daily earnings. The irony of the most expensive person in the room saying that was off the chart. It's one of the most out of touch comment I've seen in quite some time.

Personally, I think jurors should be paid their Average Daily Earnings. That's a standard calculation used to calculate leave payments. It would show very quickly, the true cost of the jury system.

Most of the true cost is currently being born voluntarily by employers. If they didn't do that, many prospective jurors would have to be excused due to financial hardship, or experience financial hardship or just not turn up.

If they were required to pay the average daily earnings, then for high earning people that earn millions a year, it would cost a lot. The problem with earning a lot, is that many high earners also have high cost lifestyles, with expensive homes and mortgages. IMO all jurors should be paid the same, but i should be at the living wage. Expenses and the daily amounts they pay should be updated yearly with inflation. I don't know how someone who is paying $4000 a month or more on mortgage payments plus other costs could afford to do jury service, if their employer wasn't also paying them. You almost need some of of insurance to cover you incase you get called up.

Wellingtondave

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#3075596 12-May-2023 20:04

Handle9:
paulgr:

Seems a little petty, but I guess employers require proof that employees in general are doing jury duty and not using it as an excuse to get some free time off.
An employee of my brother tried this on a couple of years ago.

Employers aren’t required to pay you while you are on jury duty but most do. It’s pretty reasonable that you don’t profit from jury duty.

But should it cost you? Transport? Childcare? Lost ability to do shopping? Other increased expenses? Yes it's your "duty" so inconvenienced isn't something you're being compensated for.

Professional, as in available full time, diverse jury pools have been floated for decades, for one reason or another they're not acceptable to the "justice system".

Handle9

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#3075598 12-May-2023 20:15

You can claim mileage, parking , public transport and childcare.

Being part of a functional society puts obligations on you. IMO being inconvenienced is in the same boat as paying tax. It’s the price you pay for a functional society.

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loceff13

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#3075669 12-May-2023 23:45

Handle9: You can claim mileage, parking , public transport and childcare.

Being part of a functional society puts obligations on you. IMO being inconvenienced is in the same boat as paying tax. It’s the price you pay for a functional society.

Still no excuse that it can't be in line with inflation, if this was acceptable in 2004..

Handle9

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#3075675 13-May-2023 00:25

loceff13:
Handle9: You can claim mileage, parking , public transport and childcare.

Being part of a functional society puts obligations on you. IMO being inconvenienced is in the same boat as paying tax. It’s the price you pay for a functional society.

Still no excuse that it can't be in line with inflation, if this was acceptable in 2004..

No excuse for expenses not being in line with inflation? Expenses are actual expenses.

raytaylor

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#3075683 13-May-2023 01:50

mattwnz:

If they were required to pay the average daily earnings, then for high earning people that earn millions a year, it would cost a lot.

Ideally these people would be paying much more in taxes too.

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afe66

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#3075787 13-May-2023 12:14

Ideally we would be paying capital gain taxes too.

Geektastic

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#3075876 13-May-2023 17:50

Handle9: You can claim mileage, parking , public transport and childcare.

Being part of a functional society puts obligations on you. IMO being inconvenienced is in the same boat as paying tax. It’s the price you pay for a functional society.

Obligations apparently include the idea of a society having to pay to feed and house people that offend against it. I struggle with the logic of that.