School uniform enigma

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#3185564 23-Jan-2024 16:33

Rikkitic:

Why are New Zealand schools so obsessed with uniforms, even when many parents struggle to pay for them? What is it that makes this so important? What does it have to do with learning? Dutch schools do just fine without them. So do Americans. Why can't New Zealand schools? I genuinely don't understand this. Is it just some kind of national OC tic?

The price of uniforms has got out of hand, but...

Families generally find school uniforms save money and prevent social anxiety. You only need one pair of pants and a few shirts and some socks and a pair of shoes and sandals of specified basic type. Without a uniform, there is intense social pressure on adolescent students to turn up to school in all kinds of expensive, trendy clothes complete with designer running shoes. OK for wealthy, but a feeling of disadvantage and embarrassment for the less wealthy.

Our 3 went to schools with uniforms. The older ones got either new or 2nd hand and the younger ones got handmedowns - all with no embarrassment.

johno1234

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#3185566 23-Jan-2024 16:35

Rikkitic:

My prejudice says let's make them all look alike so they will all think alike and be good cogs for the machine. That is just my prejudice, of course.

There's an element of truth to this. On the other hand, kids turning up in non descript kmart clothes because that's all they can afford are sitting next to wealthy kids with designer threads and feeling really bad.

Kids are often insecure.

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#3185570 23-Jan-2024 16:55

I loved my kids primary school uniform. A basic red polo shirt available from the school or several local stores including The Warehouse and Kmart, and your bottom half has to be black. Inexpensive, and a pretty level playing field.

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#3185580 23-Jan-2024 17:16

johno1234:

There's an element of truth to this. On the other hand, kids turning up in non descript kmart clothes because that's all they can afford are sitting next to wealthy kids with designer threads and feeling really bad.

Kids are often insecure.

This strikes me as a fake argument. If schools can require children to wear uniforms, they can also lay down standards for acceptable wear. Non-label, solid colours, specified types of garments, like T-shirts and shorts. This can be done without prescribing identical uniforms.

Or just say it has to come from K-mart. Challenge the kids' creativity.

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#3185581 23-Jan-2024 17:19

Rikkitic:
johno1234:

There's an element of truth to this. On the other hand, kids turning up in non descript kmart clothes because that's all they can afford are sitting next to wealthy kids with designer threads and feeling really bad.

Kids are often insecure.

This strikes me as a fake argument. If schools can require children to wear uniforms, they can also lay down standards for acceptable wear. Non-label, solid colours, specified types of garments, like T-shirts and shorts. This can be done without prescribing identical uniforms.

Or just say it has to come from K-mart. Challenge the kids' creativity.

At that point it’s just a uniform by another name and needlessly difficult to administer.

You either have a uniform or you don’t.

Rikkitic

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#3185584 23-Jan-2024 17:24

Handle9:

At that point it’s just a uniform by another name and needlessly difficult to administer.

You either have a uniform or you don’t.

I was being facetious. It isn't that hard to declare a general standard of dress without being proscriptive.

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gzt

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#3185587 23-Jan-2024 17:30

Rikkitic: Why are New Zealand schools so obsessed with uniforms, even when many parents struggle to pay for them?

Mostly because NZ in that respect inherits from Britain. Uniform in Britain related to class caste system as you can clearly see expressed in the Eton photo on the previous page above.

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#3185592 23-Jan-2024 17:39

Rikkitic: Why are New Zealand schools so obsessed

It does look like an obsession in some aspects. Relatively speaking I'm guessing the average NZ school is pretty flexible and lenient when it comes to uniform compliance. Aside from occasional outbreaks of silly argument about hair length and style and all that.

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#3185595 23-Jan-2024 17:46

Bung: About 10 years ago we spent a week in a home stay in Khayelitsha township at Cape Town. Supposedly one of the five biggest slums in the world yet each morning when we headed out there were large groups of children in clean uniforms waiting for school buses.

I'm sure the parents worked extremely hard in difficult circumstances to make that happen every day. I'm not familiar with the area but it's quite possible students are sent home if uniform is not up to standard. You're not going to see the students waiting for the bus who were kept home that day.

ezbee

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#3185602 23-Jan-2024 18:12

The problem is not that there is a Uniform.

Its Schools deliberately mandating 'Expensive Uniforms.'

More precisely the Principal and School Boards choosing to be mean to their customers, the students' families.

As noted in the article posted by caffynz:
https://thespinoff.co.nz/opinion/14-01-2022/why-are-school-uniforms-so-outrageously-expensive-2

""
In fact, legendary New Zealand clothing-retailer-that-refuses-to-die, Postie, sells generic school uniform clothing, an option popular with some primary schools. White shirt? $7. Simple shorts? $7. Colourful polo shirt? $5. Pair of socks? $2. Bucket Hat? $7.
""

Simple basic clothing in the spirit of original uniforms is available but for 'reasons' Principals and School Boards won't choose it.
Standard single colour skirt, shirt, pants etc
If they did then more would come in to compete as well.

It might also be a great start. of school project to screen print some logos, if you really want at almost zero cost.

A simple uniform should be the cheapest option to allow everyone to fit in without brand shaming.

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#3185615 23-Jan-2024 18:50

In the UK government 2021/22 passed a law that more or less mandates schools must specify generically available items where possible and eliminate extremely silly obsessive and onerous uniform requirements like monogrammed school sport socks and all that.

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#3185616 23-Jan-2024 18:53

I am in favour of uniforms for the reasons outlined by many here. I do however have serious issue with the total lack of flexibility around what consistutes meeting the standard.

If it's white socks, any white socks that are close in appearance should be acceptable, a blue stripe doesn't make or break a uniform code, make it any less easy to identify a kid etc, and the cost of that blue striped sock is 4-10 x what a plain white sock from K'mart costs.

I ended up in pretty much a stand up argument with the principal at my daughters school over socks for that reason. He threatened to prevent her attending school if she wasn't wearing the 'correct' uniform, I suggested he formalise in writing for me, he was refusing education to an inzone child over socks, so I could forward it to the Ministry of Education, which created what I am sure would be olympic gold speed back peddling. It actually turned out to be that a pricing error had been made (by the school), and instead of $40 per pair, they were $14 a pair. I didn't get a reply back to my question asking if they would be contacting all the parents who paid full price for a refund.

We are fortunate we can afford new uniforms, and we bought new for a few reasons, one being so that when my kids outgrow them, they can be passed down to someone who may struggle to pay full price for new.

I'd love to see it formalised that if uniforms are given to the uniform shop at zero cost, they are passed on at zero cost for those in need.

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#3185619 23-Jan-2024 18:57

robjg63:

The problems seems to come from insisting on Shoes, Blazers, Jackets, Jerseys etc, all with embroidered logos and colour themed clothes etc.

Totally this. Public schools should be banned from requiring logos or insignias that prevent uniforms being purchased from anywhere. A simple colour scheme should allow all kids to comply and be identifiable

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#3185620 23-Jan-2024 19:00

ezbee:

A simple uniform should be the cheapest option to allow everyone to fit in without brand shaming.

In the argument I had with the principal of my daughters school, he was upset because I was trying to circumvent one of the methods the school had for fundraising. That went down well I can assure you.

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#3185621 23-Jan-2024 19:03

$14 a pair is on the high side assuming most people will need five pairs. I hope they are excellent quality and last several generations. $70 for five pairs compared to adequate quality maybe $20 from somewhere like The Warehouse. Factor in losing one or two before the year is over and it starts to look punishing.

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