School uniform enigma

Forums › Off topic › School uniform enigma

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18657 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#311513 23-Jan-2024 09:15

Why are New Zealand schools so obsessed with uniforms, even when many parents struggle to pay for them? What is it that makes this so important? What does it have to do with learning? Dutch schools do just fine without them. So do Americans. Why can't New Zealand schools? I genuinely don't understand this. Is it just some kind of national OC tic?

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | ... | 10

7413 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#3185421 23-Jan-2024 09:27

You’ll get the standard arguments in favour of uniform - it’s neat and professional, teaches children to care for their clothes, instills pride, provides a financial leveller (as all kids are dressed the same)… but, yeah, I agree with you - I don’t think any of these provide adequate justification.

Interestingly, some kids like them - one of my kid enjoys wearing a uniform as he doesn’t have to think about what he’s going to wear, while the other one hated it.

That many high schools don’t have uniforms in some of the upper years (in my son’s case, that’s the last two years), as (I assume) part of ‘preparing them for the real world’, shows how arbitrary it is. Also interesting to see (for me, disappointing) that many more primary schools have adopted compulsory uniforms over the last 20-30 years.

There are, of course, exceptions to this at high school level - in Wellington both Onslow College and Wellington High don’t have uniforms at all. But that’s also reflective of their wider culture, and is just one more thing that more liberal high schools get criticised for…

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18657 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3185430 23-Jan-2024 09:55

My prejudice says let's make them all look alike so they will all think alike and be good cogs for the machine. That is just my prejudice, of course.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

hsvhel

1237 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#3185434 23-Jan-2024 10:06

It made it easy to figure out what to wear for me, and reduced and "brand" competition in social circles.

Now the kids have them, they seem to be fine with them, although the prices are creeping up year on year for the same gear i had many moons ago

Referral Link Quic

Free Setup use R502152EQH6OK on check out

heavenlywild

5060 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#3185436 23-Jan-2024 10:14

It's good from my perspective.

No comparing brands, no wearing inappropriate clothing, etc.

Concentrate on learning, not on what you wear. That's the purpose of uniforms.

I agree they are getting expensive. I would hate to imagine the cost for the next generation.

heavenlywild

5060 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#3185438 23-Jan-2024 10:15

I do wanna mention that our local primary school has decided kids can wear any shoes they want (other than jandals). This is great because:

1) Black school shoes are expensive and uncomfortable

2) Wearing sneakers is more comfortable and kids can easily run around in them

3) Cheaper to buy!

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18657 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3185444 23-Jan-2024 10:31

Good points above. I'm not convinced by them but I do acknowledge them.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Senecio

2710 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#3185445 23-Jan-2024 10:31

I don't have any kids but I keep hearing about the cost. Are the uniforms more expensive than a similar quality piece of clothing? Say a polo shirt, are the uniforms more or less expensive than a similar quality polo shirt that you'd pick up at Farmers or other equivalent reatiler?

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

Earbanean

937 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3185448 23-Jan-2024 10:48

One of the main reasons for uniforms is to try to reduce apparent inequality amongst kids. i.e. Without uniforms, some kids will wear the latest, expensive cool brands and fashions, while others will be forced to wear noticeably 'poorer' clothes. With kids being prone to bullying at the best of times, clothing can be another source of ridicule. However, with uniforms, theoretically everyone is equal.

KiwiSurfer

1449 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#3185450 23-Jan-2024 10:53

As a former primary/intermediate teacher I can see both sides of the argument.

For:

Makes it much easier to track younger kids on school trips to places where multiple schools are on site (e.g. musems, etc). This is also good where e.g. you have a primrary and intermediate school next to each other so you can esaily see when someone is out of bounds.
Financial leveller in some ways (but see caveat below).
If a kid has an accident at school and needs tempoary clothing, it's easy enough to grab one out of the cupboard. Our team used to ask parents once their kid left school if they'd be happy to donate their kid's old uniform to our spare uniform cupboard. Over the years this cupboard filled up with clothing of all sizes.
No arguments on what to wear (I suspect this is more of a benefit for parents!).
Can be cheaper than buying normal clothes if the school makes the effort to select the right type of clothing/materials/etc. One school I worked at only had a reasonably priced t-shirt as their uniform -- and BYO hat/shorts/socks/shoes/etc of a certain colour.

Against:

One issue with the financial leveller theory is that it's can still be pretty obvious who's wearing old/hand-me-downs/etc and who's wearing fresh new ones.
Doesn't encourage people to think for themselves.
Out of touch with modern society where uniforms are becoming less common.
Cost of uniforms -- but in saying that there are certain schools who do make an effort to keep the costs of these down.
Hassle when relocating to a new area/school/etc -- having to buy new uniforms etc.
Absences is higher at uniforms schools because parents will keep their child at home rather than send them in without an uniform if they havn't managed to wash their clothes. (Fustrating for me as a teacher as I don't make an issue out of it -- we tried to remind parents we can provide spare uniform clothing if needed but I guess parents don't want to cause issues at school).

My personal view is that uniforms are OK but schools shouldn't make every peice of clothing into an uniform. A simple low-cost t-shirt/shirt (along with perhaps a jumper for the colder months) should be sufficent along with guidelines for other non-uniform clothing giving families the option to purchase cheaper shoes/socks/shorts/hats/etc. Some schools go as far as to specify every single peice of clothing and mandate expensive clothing, etc which is excessive IMHO. I see more benefits of uniforms for primary but for high schools I think there's less justiftications.

caffynz

271 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

Subscriber

#3185451 23-Jan-2024 10:59

Senecio:

I don't have any kids but I keep hearing about the cost. Are the uniforms more expensive than a similar quality piece of clothing? Say a polo shirt, are the uniforms more or less expensive than a similar quality polo shirt that you'd pick up at Farmers or other equivalent reatiler?

This article looks into that a bit https://thespinoff.co.nz/opinion/14-01-2022/why-are-school-uniforms-so-outrageously-expensive-2

Eva888

2428 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3185452 23-Jan-2024 11:02

Earbanean:

One of the main reasons for uniforms is to try to reduce apparent inequality amongst kids. i.e. Without uniforms, some kids will wear the latest, expensive cool brands and fashions, while others will be forced to wear noticeably 'poorer' clothes. With kids being prone to bullying at the best of times, clothing can be another source of ridicule. However, with uniforms, theoretically everyone is equal.

Wholeheartedly agree. Hard enough being a kid and if you happen to have parents with different standards or financial status to most and want to dress you in clothes from the op shop or to suit their beliefs, you are forced to wear what they supply. Kids can be very cruel and judgemental.

Earbanean

937 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3185453 23-Jan-2024 11:02

Different levels of uniform are appropriate at different age schools. Primary schools often don't have them, or it's just a t shirt/polo shirt. There the fashion thing isn't as much of a problem. Secondary schools mostly do have them.

And uniforms actually are still going strong even in this say and age. I'm pretty happy the All Blacks, Black Caps, Silver Ferns, Warriors, etc don't think for themselves and wear whatever they want.

heavenlywild

5060 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#3185460 23-Jan-2024 11:11

In terms of cost, for a primary school child, for both winter and summer uniforms, it costs around $350 plus shoes if buying from scratch.

Then you have the school donations, the Chromebook, the stationery... It all ends up being easily 1k to 1.3k a year, again if buying everything from scratch for one child.

And of course, kids will lose a hat or a jacket once or twice a year so add another $100 to the bill, lol.

heavenlywild

5060 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#3185463 23-Jan-2024 11:16

Kiwi Surfer, your point above about uniforms becoming less common.

I haven't heard of any schools dropping their uniform requirement. Do you have any evidence to back up your claims? Or were you referring to overseas?

I'm genuinely interested to know.

KiwiSurfer

1449 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#3185466 23-Jan-2024 11:40

heavenlywild:

Kiwi Surfer, your point above about uniforms becoming less common.

I haven't heard of any schools dropping their uniform requirement. Do you have any evidence to back up your claims? Or were you referring to overseas?

I'm genuinely interested to know.

I assume you refer to "Out of touch with modern society where uniforms are becoming less common"?

This was in reference to wider society -- not schools specifically.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | ... | 10