REWARD/Advice on Mobile Phone lost in Auckland Domain or near Quay/City, 27.12.10

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#431722 27-Jan-2011 10:06

UPSETAUSSIE:
I guess what YOU guys are saying is that you have no evidence that by tracking the phone it can tell that someone has converted my phone, right?

No, what we're saying is that it doesn't matter who has it or why; it is an invasion of their privacy for us to start looking at it, and that is illegal.

It sounds screwed up, but it's there to protect the innocent. Assuming it is being used by someone, who's to say they didn't buy it off Trademe and have absolutely no idea of it's real history? I've bought a couple of second-hand phones off Trademe to execute various test scenarios; my checking of the phones was limited to "does the phone work?".

Then there are all the other potential consequences - suppose we told you where it was, you went around there, and got yourself assaulted or murdered for your trouble. Or, suppose (and note, this is hypothetical - I'm not suggesting anything of the sort is true!) you are a crook, and the phone has evidence of that, and when we tell you where the phone is you go around and assault them.

For all of these reasons, we have police to sort these things out.

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minimoke

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#431764 27-Jan-2011 11:47

UPSETAUSSIE: Hi everybody, I know none of you can understand how much I have been upset over this the last month, and that is understandable, and it is also understandable why I would want to go to this trouble and expense. But I thought I should just post some advice I got here from a NZ criminal lawyer, because some of you work for the telcos. It relates to the concept of "theft by finding". This person said:-

"I not know why a warrant is needed. If someone has converted your phone then the police should just contact the telco and get the evidence they need. The telcos are avoiding the issue because they do not understand theft by finding, and you could say to them that by doing nothing they are aiding and abetting the thief".

I guess what YOU guys are saying is that you have no evidence that by tracking the phone it can tell that someone has converted my phone, right?

I can't begin to understand how upset you might be about loosing your phone - its clearly very personal to you. But perhaps some perspective is required.

If the contents were so critically valuable there might have been some prior motivation to ensure there was some kind of copy kept. That they are lost is clearly a tragedy for you and for that I'm sure you have our sympathy.

But it strikes me you are spiraling down into a place that can't be pleasant. Rather than enjoying the things a visitor to NZ might enjoy you are distracted and resorting to taking advice from a criminal lawyer about a lost phone.

There are probably a million offences on our law books. Anyone, including a criminal lawyer, who thinks the NZ police are going to follow up every offence, even when there is no evidence of an offence is in la la land.

I suspect you will leave NZ a disappointed visitor. You'll be disappointed that someone would come across your phone and not hand it in, you're disappointed the telco's won't do anything to find it and you are disappointed the NZ police won't help. You might even be disappointed that Geeks couldn't help.

How about doing something to create new positive memories. In Christchurch we have the International Buskers Festival - elsewhere in NZ there will be hundreds of really neat things happening which you can immerse your self in and enjoy.

(if geeks have some spare resource for visitors I'd much prefer you used it to track freedom campers who are crapping on the front lawn of peoples homes and making a mess of our by-ways. That would be a real service to visitors that follow them.)

SepticSceptic

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#431806 27-Jan-2011 13:27

minimoke:
UPSETAUSSIE: Hi everybody, I know none of you can understand how much I have been upset over this the last month, and that is understandable, and it is also understandable why I would want to go to this trouble and expense. But I thought I should just post some advice I got here from a NZ criminal lawyer, because some of you work for the telcos. It relates to the concept of "theft by finding". This person said:-

"I not know why a warrant is needed. If someone has converted your phone then the police should just contact the telco and get the evidence they need. The telcos are avoiding the issue because they do not understand theft by finding, and you could say to them that by doing nothing they are aiding and abetting the thief".

I guess what YOU guys are saying is that you have no evidence that by tracking the phone it can tell that someone has converted my phone, right?

I can't begin to understand how upset you might be about loosing your phone - its clearly very personal to you. But perhaps some perspective is required.

If the contents were so critically valuable there might have been some prior motivation to ensure there was some kind of copy kept. That they are lost is clearly a tragedy for you and for that I'm sure you have our sympathy.

+1, especially on the back up side of things. In these days of instant digital photos, it's so easy to loose treasured memories such as you have. Unlike the good old paper stuff, faded and loss of colours, but it's still all there, and easy to evoke the memories.

Poor blighters in QLD who have lost everything to water damage, including digital photos, paper photos and slides ...

Anyway, try the Sideswipe page in the NZ Herald - they have been running a sort of lost and found entry over the last few weeks, and your phone should be easily identifiable, esp with the drilled hole.

Best of luck - and get new new shots ASAP when you get back home.

UPSETAUSSIE

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#431957 27-Jan-2011 21:15

Hey everyone, thanks for your replies. I hace had a ball in this amazingly beautiful country and will not leave disappointed, which I am doing very soon. I have a long-term chronic disorder (please don't press me for this as it is irrelevant) and can obsess for long times - if it wasn't for this, the holiday would have been absolutely perfect! (This only mars/taints my memory, together with a flight attendant on a very small airline who, while having the best intentions, somewhat carelessly and thoughtlessly decided to take my husband's Akubra Fedora hat and leave it in an insecure area of the terminal when he left it on the plane at Wellington, and she could not find us).

I heard about the Freedom Campers, surely there are some simple solutions, like creating compositing pooing-pots for them somewhere? Providing compostible pooing-pots for them for free at i-site centres? I dunno....just thinking out loud here?

Doing the work I do (as a volunteer), I can assure you I have been thinking of my countrymen in Qld. However, I am here for my own pain, not theirs!

SepticSceptic, I did write to both Sideswipe - Lost and Found AND the letters editor of the Herald (given that there are precedent issues with tourist thefts around Auckland Domain), thanks, but heard nothing back by email.

johnr and Salty, I am now aware of the legal ramifications of what I would be asking you both to do. I can assure you, I wouldn't want either of you to lose your livelihoods, nor do I want to play at being a "bush lawyer", especially given that it would be difficult as I will soon be leaving the country. I would imagine if you found something, the fact I have given you the police reference and case numbers, coupled with the fact I can prove ownership of my phone with Telstra (Australia) if required, should convince you of my bona fides! Moreover, the PI has basically said the same thing you have!

Anyway, for what it's worth, and for completeness' sake, I have emailed you the IMEI of the phone and the details of it's loss, as I have done with jaidevr. I entrust this information for you to do as you wish!

Kind regards

G

UPSETAUSSIE

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#432732 30-Jan-2011 00:05

Hello again everyone! I am home and checked my bill and it looks as though there have been quite a few instances of unauthorised use Four attempts to use the phone, dialled to a number I do not recognise, and the number, when I call it, doesn't answer of course (diverts to nowhere). Also a bit of internet use and I managed to download an incomprehensible voice mail message on 20 January, not sure whether related to the first two calling attempts.

So, jaidevp, SaltyNZ and johnr, would you kindly please check your PM's for the details of the time. Looks as though the thief has been smart as when I tried to call the number which was dialled and the number which left the voice message, I can't get anything.

I only have one voice message unfortunately, any received earlier are probably deleted if greater than 14 days old.

Not sure whether if I leave a new voice mail message on my phone offering a reward, whether it will be picked up, as I am now in Australia when they dial the number.

UPSETAUSSIE

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#432733 30-Jan-2011 00:09

FYI, the number the "thief' tried to ring, using my phone on 27 December, was the following: - 0061418707103. I can't ring the number that was used to leave the voice message to me at 4.33pm on 20th January and not sure how I could obtain this number as when I try to ring it back, it doesn't respond. Does anyone know how, please?

I am really unwell here with the upset and stress in chasing this up and the lack of my network in Australia, to really care or do their job properly - they could tag phones which are being misued. Blocking the handset does nothing to deter thieves...my blood pressure is skyrocketing and I am scared of having a heart attack.

freitasm

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#432757 30-Jan-2011 10:01

UPSETAUSSIE: FYI, the number the "thief' tried to ring, using my phone on 27 December, was the following: - 0061418707103. I can't ring the number that was used to leave the voice message to me at 4.33pm on 20th January and not sure how I could obtain this number as when I try to ring it back, it doesn't respond. Does anyone know how, please?

Interesting. Does Telstra list incomplete calls attempt? Otherwise how would you know what number did he try calling?

UPSETAUSSIE: I am really unwell here with the upset and stress in chasing this up and the lack of my network in Australia, to really care or do their job properly - they could tag phones which are being misued. Blocking the handset does nothing to deter thieves...my blood pressure is skyrocketing and I am scared of having a heart attack.

Relax. Learn from mistakes. I am pretty sure nothing can be done now.

Write it off, buy a new handset. Make sure you know how to download pictures from your phone to your PC and make sure you have a backup of your PC - hopefully with an online service so that if you lose your phone and your PC you still have the pictures.

As for the handset itself, it's a piece of sand, plastic and few rare metals. You can buy a new one, if not now, soon.

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UPSETAUSSIE

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#432759 30-Jan-2011 10:11

Yes Mauricio, I got my Telstra Bill yesterday and it shows an incomplete call, the same call made four times, to a number I cannot connect to as it said it was "diverted" - the number appeared on the bill. I didn't just pull it out of thin air!!

I will call the Telcos in NZ today with the information to get their emails. I am not sure if anything can be done, as you say.

However, when I am determined, I have the tenacity of a bull in this regard. This person is really a low life who shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.

Yes, I will look into getting an electronic online back up of photos taken my camera and mobile phone in future. I have seen some available, is it Kapersky which is supposed to be the best.

If not, what do you guys recommend?

joff_nz

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#432760 30-Jan-2011 10:23

The number above appears to be an Australian number? Are you certain they haven't tried to call someone listed in your phone book to try and return the phone?

freitasm

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#432761 30-Jan-2011 10:31

UPSETAUSSIE: Yes, I will look into getting an electronic online back up of photos taken my camera and mobile phone in future. I have seen some available, is it Kapersky which is supposed to be the best.

I use Mozy online backup (aff link). Currently sitting at 150GB stored online...

VinLew

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#432789 30-Jan-2011 11:32

UPSETAUSSIE: 0061418707103.

That's an Australian number (you would see it as 0418707103 if you rang it from Australia). So it does seem somebody has been trying to ring a number in your address book, maybe to try return the phone. Have you tried simply ringing your phone from a landline in Aussie?

UPSETAUSSIE

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#432846 30-Jan-2011 15:44

Hi guys, the number is not in my list, I don't recognise it, though I do know it is an Australian number. Moreover, the call was made 4 times and shows no call duration, so they only wanted to know if the phone was on and working. When I call the number from Australia, it says the number is not connected.

Even someone as dumb as me knows that this now the classic thing to do, stick a SIM card into it and use it to dial Australia, then dump the phone. If this person was SO interested in returning it to me, they bl**dy well wouldn't have tried to access the internet on my phone twice the next day, on the 28th at 7.23am and 7.25am would they? Of course, the location of the satellite used to access the internet doesn't show up - it only says telstra.wap on my bill and has a total of $4.861 in charges.

And then, there is that weird voice mail message I get at 4:33pm on 20th Jan, when I am still in New Zealand, from a voice I don't recognise, which basically says f*ck all, sounds like some idiot having a bit of fun at my expense. Also, I don't have any text messages which state that someone has been trying to return the phone to me.

UPSETAUSSIE

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#432848 30-Jan-2011 15:52

I just wanna know guys...before I cark it with a heart attack and the depression on top of what I usually deal with in my life, I feel which really makes me immobile for months on end, whether knowing you have my IMEI of my handset and knowing that this number was dialled from that phone on a particular time and in this case, it was four times, so it should stand out, sort of - can it be linked to a tower and give some sort of rough location? The guy from Telstra said something about a detailed bill, but most people know sweet f*all about this. Of course the Network in NZ used to dial this number is not shown on my Telstra bill.

VinLew

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#432880 30-Jan-2011 17:49

UPSETAUSSIE: Even someone as dumb as me knows that this now the classic thing to do, stick a SIM card into it and use it to dial Australia, then dump the phone.

None of the data would show up on your account if a different sim card was used, everything you see on your account has been done on your sim card.

UPSETAUSSIE

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#432993 31-Jan-2011 00:02

VinLew:
UPSETAUSSIE: Even someone as dumb as me knows that this now the classic thing to do, stick a SIM card into it and use it to dial Australia, then dump the phone.
None of the data would show up on your account if a different sim card was used, everything you see on your account has been done on your sim card.

VinLiew, sorry, yes you are perfectly right about that..momentary lapse of logic. I guess the weird voice mail messages I have been receiving (I got another one this afternoon), another very short inaudible garbled message is NOT using my phone, I only assume it is from someone who knows my number and I am thinking of places it may be posted (Lost/Found Reward sitesin NZ I have posted the phone on). It is only sad that there isn't enough info to check the satellite used for the internet access, nor the tower used when my phone was used to make those calls. Very Frustrating.

Also, I assume the technology DOES exist for my mobile phone number to be tracked to see who is leaving these voice messages to me, as I cannot call the caller back when I try to use the reply function. Some kind of trace surely can be applied to the number, not just the IMEI. Of course, no-one can be ars*d to do this for me, not important enough, I guess.

Some beer for me is in order, I think!

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