REWARD/Advice on Mobile Phone lost in Auckland Domain or near Quay/City, 27.12.10

Forums › Off topic › REWARD/Advice on Mobile Phone lost in Auckland Domain or near Quay/City, 27.12.10

UPSETAUSSIE

22 posts

Geek

#75851 24-Jan-2011 18:40

Hi everyone

On my second day here in NZ, I had the pleasure of losing my mobile phone at around 5.15pm, from my small handbag, probably either in Auckland Domain near the War Memorial Museum or near the taxi cab area, or hopefully not in the cab (I did check at least twice with Taxi Company) or near our hotel in Customs Street East, when I got out of it.

The phone was only a Black LG flip phone - Model TU500 (The "T" stands for Telstra), (bought in 2007) but blind freddy could work out it belonged to an Aussie - it was a Telstra marked/branded phone with a Telstra logo on it. I had a pink carry strap with my name (G. Young) and Australian landline and my mobile number in black ink on the back of the strap. It was also unique in that it had a drilled hole on the top right corner near the hinge to enable said strap to be attached. It had international roaming enabled on it. Needless to say, I have exhausted all enquiries and it hasn't turned up. Initially I blocked outgoing calls from it, then a week or so later, unblocked it, because the only way to catch a thief who has it, is to see whether they have actually made calls using it. So far, it appears they haven't.

Assuming it isn't dumped and given that it was probably taken by a bored kid on school holidays who got bored while hanging out, who later took out the Aussie Telstra SIM card out to use it themselves, or has tried to sell or has stolen it, is there anything I can do further? I have even contacted a major consulting company and emailed the Forensic technology specialist several times and contacted a site who takes used mobile phones. The Forensic person said they would check with their contacts in NZ Telcos, which apparently has revealed nothing. They said they are not prepared to go further with this for me, as success would be small and I haven't heard back to my last two emails I sent that person.

As far as I see it, assuming it is switched on (the thief would have to go to the trouble of finding a charger for it) the only way to track it without interrogating each Telco's tower in Auckland, is to somehow get it to dial emergency and triangulate the location, as they do in these cases?

Are there any REAL Geeks who sincerely know what they are talking about who can help me please? It is just that I had some special family photos on there, taken spontaneously, as well as the inconvenience of it all re my unsaved contacts.

I would be sincerely grateful and offer a generous reward for assistance.

Cheers everybody!

1 | 2 | 3 | 4

BDFL - Memuneh
79250 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#430711 24-Jan-2011 20:15

Sorry to hear this happened. If you know the IMEI it could be tracked to see if it's been used and which area/cell site.

A few years back I lost a handset and since I had it insured I claimed to my insurance company. What happened next seems to be taken out of a fiction movie: the telco in question (Vodafone New Zealand) managed to track calls being made with the same IMEI. Now comes the thing: whoever found it was using with a SIM card linked to an account, so Vodafone had all they needed to find this person: a verified address, credit card number etc.

This is possible because every time a call is initiate the handset sends out its IMEI and SIM card information. Knowing the IMEI helps a lot.

After a visit by a couple of cops the person returned the handset and Vodafone mailed it back to me in less than a week.

Now, this was about ten years ago. Telcos can still do it. But I'd suspect the volume of support these days, plus all other attempts at scamming insurance and probably they wouldn't move a thing for someone.

In your case it would also be harder because you'd have to prove ownership of this handset, something like a receipt of something - unless you travel with this I don't think they would even start a search.

Sorry... Happy to have someone disagreeing with me here.

UPSETAUSSIE

22 posts

Geek

#431078 25-Jan-2011 16:05

Dear Mauricio, thanks for your response!. I really appreciate your time and you are the only reply I have gotten so far!

I don't know, getting people with the power to do the right thing seems like getting blood out of a stone. Getting the IMEI of the phone was easy peezy. I got that and gave it to the private investigator, who said they would use their contacts in the Telco's to see whether the phone had been re-used, since I have no power to do it myself. Of course, if it is used with a pre-paid SIM card, then they can't track a person to it, can they?

Or can they? Or are they just not bothered to do it?

So what do I do? Proving ownership of the phone is easy too, I just have to go to Telstra in Australia, who sold me the phone and who I have an account with, since I got the phone in 2007.

But how do I diligently get the Telco's to check whether this IMEI is coming up when they interrogate their towers?

I shouldn't have to spend a small fortune on investigators, this is something that anyone with any computing brains could set up for the Telcos themselves, but it is not in their interests to do so. It just has to do an overnight run or something like that every now and then. I don't like writing letters of demand to these companies, but I guess that is what I will be forced to do, unfortunately. My only problem is I don't know whether Telecom NZ, Vodafone NZ, 2 Degrees and Digital Island covers it, or whether there are other players in the field, too that I am unaware of.

My mother may die or suddenly take a turn for the worse this year and some of my memories of her and I are stored on that damn phone - it really makes me angry when the phone itself is out of date.

wongtop

563 posts

Ultimate Geek

#431086 25-Jan-2011 16:22

I would suggest tyring tugging on the heartstrings of the various members of geekzone who work for the different telcos via a PM; johnr (vodafone), saltynz (2degrees) and nealr (telecom). You might have to provide a copy of a police report (or other evidence) just to show that you aren't trying to pull a social engineering hack.

jaidevp

331 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

Spark NZ

#431102 25-Jan-2011 17:09

PM me the IMEI I'll see what comes up.

VinLew

210 posts

Master Geek

#431103 25-Jan-2011 17:12

wongtop: I would suggest tyring tugging on the heartstrings of the various members of geekzone who work for the different telcos via a PM; johnr (vodafone), saltynz (2degrees) and nealr (telecom). You might have to provide a copy of a police report (or other evidence) just to show that you aren't trying to pull a social engineering hack.

They are probably your best option, but you can also send a message to @2degreesmobile, @TelecomNZ and @vodafoneNZ on Twitter. Another idea is to contact them on Facebook (Telecom NZ, vodafone NZ or 2degrees Mobile)

EDIT: I see jaidevp has offered a check, so you should have the Telecom NZ side sorted

johnr

19282 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#431106 25-Jan-2011 17:22

Its all very well doing a IMEI trace and getting the MSISDN using the handset but anything can happen after this. Smash the phone throw it in a rubbish bin and the time to track a mobile device and the cost is huge and much larger if the handset is actually mobile.

What carriers SIM was in the handset the time it was lost?

Vodafone NZ and Telecom NZ have an EIR and can Blacklist the IMEI

2Degrees have you got an active EIR so you can blacklist IMEI's

John

UPSETAUSSIE

22 posts

Geek

#431178 25-Jan-2011 20:51

wongtop: I would suggest tyring tugging on the heartstrings of the various members of geekzone who work for the different telcos via a PM; johnr (vodafone), saltynz (2degrees) and nealr (telecom). You might have to provide a copy of a police report (or other evidence) just to show that you aren't trying to pull a social engineering hack.

Hi wongtop...thanks for answering!! I will certainly try doing that. I am not sure how to provide a copy of a police report, but I hvae the Reference Number with NZ Police, and I can call Telstra in AUS to email me proof of ownership of the phone (which may take ages!). No social engineering hack here...just want my phone back and intact. I reckon only a kid would do this...replace the SIM with a pre-paid SIM and thus there is no way the phone IMEI could be traced to a name as kids don't generally have credit or debit cards. Hence, anyone's reluctance to do further stuff. Ta.

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

UPSETAUSSIE

22 posts

Geek

#431181 25-Jan-2011 21:00

jaidevp: PM me the IMEI I'll see what comes up.

Hi Jaidevp, thanks for that...that is really nice of you. I am just wondering, for the benefit of anyone else who may be going through this or have gone through this, what the answers to these questions are:-

1) for how long would this IMEI trace have to be done? At what time would the Telco say, that's enough?

2) Also Telecom NZ would have heaps of towers in Auckland to interrogate, I would imagine, so how do you know whether you have the right tower?

3) As I said to wong? above, if the thief/finder sticks a pre-paid SIM into it, it is never going to be linked to a credit or debit card, so that is most likely the outcome, right? (I mean when I actually THINK about it, if someone needs to steal a mobile phone, they are not going to be able to afford to have a credit card, nor would they be stupid enough to use plastic or anything else that could identify them, right?

UPSETAUSSIE

22 posts

Geek

#431189 25-Jan-2011 21:14

johnr: Its all very well doing a IMEI trace and getting the MSISDN using the handset but anything can happen after this. Smash the phone throw it in a rubbish bin and the time to track a mobile device and the cost is huge and much larger if the handset is actually mobile.

What carriers SIM was in the handset the time it was lost?

Vodafone NZ and Telecom NZ have an EIR and can Blacklist the IMEI

2Degrees have you got an active EIR so you can blacklist IMEI's

John

johnr, thanks for your reply. I appreciate it. To answer your question, the SIM that was in the handset at the time it was lost was a TELSTRA (Australia) SIM card, i.e., the SIM card I used in Australia. Initially I had incoming calls blocked, then realised that even if I incur international roaming charges, the only way to catch a thief is to keep it unblocked, so I had it unblocked a week later. So far, Telstra say there have been no outgoing calls on it (surprise, surprise).

I understand that it has most likely been trashed, given it was an Aussie Phone and would need to be unlocked to accept a NZ SIM card on most networks (besides Vodafone, if I am not mistaken?).

I DON'T want the IMEI blacklisted, because that defeats my purpose - which is to make the phone usable by the thief in order to catch them, or am I barking up the wrong tree here?

UPSETAUSSIE

22 posts

Geek

#431205 25-Jan-2011 21:54

VinLew, thanks heaps for your post.

Wongtop, I have taken your advice, but please check your PM box.

** jaidevp, johnr and SaltyNZ, please check your PM's!

Please let me know if you want me to get proof of ownership of my phone. As stated, lost property report filed with Aucland Police on 27.12.10

***Thanks heaps, you guys are terrrific!

GY

SaltyNZ

8218 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#431216 25-Jan-2011 22:21

Hi guys, I have responded to Gaby; I'm sure we would be happy to help but the laws are pretty complicated around these things. Believe it or not, we could infringe on the privacy of whoever has it now just by looking. It's best to get the police to request this kind of thing via a warrant, that way everyone's behind is covered.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

johnr

19282 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#431217 25-Jan-2011 22:22

A IMEI trace does not need to be left running 24/7

I will run this pass the powers that be and confirm if I can action the trace. I have access to action this but its not part of my core roll in Vodafone NZ this is looked after by the agency team

John

(PS trying to reply to your PM and I get permission denied)

johnr

19282 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#431218 25-Jan-2011 22:32

SaltyNZ: Hi guys, I have responded to Gaby; I'm sure we would be happy to help but the laws are pretty complicated around these things. Believe it or not, we could infringe on the privacy of whoever has it now just by looking. It's best to get the police to request this kind of thing via a warrant, that way everyone's behind is covered.

Correct this is why I was not just going to action the trace as I like my job and don't want to start looking for a new one

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79250 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#431221 25-Jan-2011 22:43

I understand there are issues around our privacy laws and other stuff, but I think what should be done is someone to have a process to follow. If a user calls and ask for something like "I lost my phone can you find it for me" or "My phone was stolen", the CSR or store should be able to say "I'm sorry this happened, here is what should do: go to the police station, report the item stolen/lost and provide such and such information. They will proceed with an investigation requesting us to see if this can be traced to an account".

I mean, Trade Me has very good relationship with NZ Police and they have protocols in place, why shouldn't the telcos?

SaltyNZ

8218 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

2degrees

Lifetime subscriber

#431256 26-Jan-2011 07:33

freitasm:
I mean, Trade Me has very good relationship with NZ Police and they have protocols in place, why shouldn't the telcos?

We do, and there is: the police are aware of the procedures for contacting all of us telcos, what requires a warrant to be served, etc. We have a full-time staffer who liases with the police and other agencies, in addition to the legal team who examine all the warrants.

Without wishing to be dragged into a debate about law enforcement, I think the issue is more that the police have more important things to deal with than finding stolen mobile phones. I mean, I would very much like them to find the ***hole who stole my 200SX right out of driveway so I can look them in the eye while I kick them repeatedly in the nuts for half an hour or so, but that's not going to happen either.

Sadly, unless Gaby can convince the police to get a warrant, our hands are tied.

EDIT: I should add that, even if we did live in an ideal world where the police were able to spend the time working on every little case like this one, that would only mean our systems would be breaking under the strain of all the traces running simultaneously. *That* would mean vastly more equipment & manpower, and *that* in turn would mean higher prices -- you end up paying for the lost/stolen phone one way or another. Either directly, via insurance, via taxes, or via higher phone charges.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4