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#3517065 5-Aug-2026 10:33

cddt:

elpenguino:

...

Interesting to see the experience of Kapiti residents where meters were put in place ~25 years ago.

Until meters were introduced, water restrictions were put in place most summers. Since meters, water restrictions have seldom, if ever, been required.

...

When meters were installed in Whitianga a couple of years ago and residents began to be charged for water separately, usage immediately dropped about 25%.

Rumour and speculation has it that Tiaki Wai is estimating meter installation costs to be $4000 for each property, that will need to be on-charged to the bill-payers.

The Institute of Unfinished Research has concluded that 6 out of 10 people

Behodar

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#3517072 5-Aug-2026 10:55

Coincidentally there's an article in the local newspaper today claiming that there will be savings of "hundreds of millions" of dollars if the Whakatane, Opotiki, Kawerau and Rotorua councils make a combined water provider. It remains to be seen how accurate that claim is, of course!

cddt

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#3517265 5-Aug-2026 13:57

floydbloke:

Rumour and speculation has it that Tiaki Wai is estimating meter installation costs to be $4000 for each property, that will need to be on-charged to the bill-payers.

That's the problem with rumour and speculation...

freitasm

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#3517267 5-Aug-2026 14:16

cddt:

floydbloke:

Rumour and speculation has it that Tiaki Wai is estimating meter installation costs to be $4000 for each property, that will need to be on-charged to the bill-payers.

That's the problem with rumour and speculation...

What is the problem?

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cddt

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#3517270 5-Aug-2026 14:31

freitasm:

What is the problem?

You don't know whether it's accurate or not.

freitasm

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#3517320 5-Aug-2026 14:41

cddt:

freitasm:

What is the problem?

You don't know whether it's accurate or not.

I agree. But your comment did not make this clear.

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floydbloke

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#3517324 5-Aug-2026 14:56

cddt:

floydbloke:

Rumour and speculation has it that Tiaki Wai is estimating meter installation costs to be $4000 for each property, that will need to be on-charged to the bill-payers.

That's the problem with rumour and speculation...

I should have phrased it differently: "media reporting suggests"

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/education/596411/half-a-billion-dollar-price-tag-for-wellington-water-meter-roll-out-not-credible-mayor

$590M/140k = $4214.29

The Institute of Unfinished Research has concluded that 6 out of 10 people

deepred

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#3517336 5-Aug-2026 15:40

Handle9:

deepred:

MikeAqua:

Expensive to buy - unless you make the rate payers pay for them. Expensive to install - unless you make the rate payers pay for that too. If you make the rate payers pay, they might vote you out!

The rate system is highly tweakable by councils. This gives the council considerable discretion about how much rates they collect and how. But then the exercise of that discretion becomes a big election issue. Hence the reason we have decades of underinvestment.

Former UK High Commissioner Laura Clarke said it best: "New Zealand has Scandinavian ambitions in terms of quality of life, but a US attitude to tax."

The British have the same issue: "The structural shortfall in public services arises from an awkward truth of British politics: we want to pay American taxes and expect European services. Truss’s champions splutter that the UK tax burden is the highest for 70 years. True, but Britons still pay significantly less tax than most of those Europeans who enjoy more generous services."

It's somewhat easier to accept higher taxes when you have a highly productive economy. Norway, Sweden and Denmark all 50% or more GDP per capita than NZ. There is a lot more money to go around.

If we go by Bernard Hickey's definition of the economy, the "housing market" is undertaxed while the "bits tacked on" are overtaxed.

"I regret to say that we of the F.B.I. are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce." — J. Edgar Hoover

"Create a society that values material things above all else. Strip it of industry. Raise taxes for the poor and reduce them for the rich and for corporations. Prop up failed financial institutions with public money. Ask for more tax, while vastly reducing public services. Put adverts everywhere, regardless of people's ability to afford the things they advertise. Allow the cost of food and housing to eclipse people's ability to pay for them. Light blue touch paper." — Andrew Maxwell

MikeAqua

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#3517363 5-Aug-2026 16:37

gzt: Does your water bill include grey and sewage or is that part of the rates bill?

With the new water-authorities you're being billed for drinking water, stormwater and sewage. There are exceptions, such as if you belong to private water scheme of some sort.

Mike

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#3517364 5-Aug-2026 16:40

Handle9:

The only way to stop that happening is structural separation of water from other council activities. There's absolutely an overhead of cost that goes with it but if you don't want basic infrastructure to be a political football I'm not sure there is a better way.

I agree with your problem definition. Setting up new entities was a solution but not the only one. It could have been done, with sufficient accountability without creating additional entities with additional overheads.

Mike

MikeAqua

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#3517365 5-Aug-2026 16:45

floydbloke:

Rumour and speculation has it that Tiaki Wai is estimating meter installation costs to be $4000 for each property, that will need to be on-charged to the bill-payers.

That wouldn't surprise me. The backflow preventor at our previous property cost thousands to have installed. Plus $160/each time the council tested. Which took them about 15 minutes ... 💰💰💰

Mike

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Handle9

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#3517401 5-Aug-2026 18:33

deepred:

Handle9:

deepred:

Former UK High Commissioner Laura Clarke said it best: "New Zealand has Scandinavian ambitions in terms of quality of life, but a US attitude to tax."

The British have the same issue: "The structural shortfall in public services arises from an awkward truth of British politics: we want to pay American taxes and expect European services. Truss’s champions splutter that the UK tax burden is the highest for 70 years. True, but Britons still pay significantly less tax than most of those Europeans who enjoy more generous services."

It's somewhat easier to accept higher taxes when you have a highly productive economy. Norway, Sweden and Denmark all 50% or more GDP per capita than NZ. There is a lot more money to go around.

If we go by Bernard Hickey's definition of the economy, the "housing market" is undertaxed while the "bits tacked on" are overtaxed.

The fundamental problem is wealth not tax.

Tax can drive behaviors and direct capital but it doesn't really make the pot of money bigger. New Zealand businesses are terrible at investing in productivity.

elpenguino

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#3517446 6-Aug-2026 00:03

MikeAqua:

gzt: Does your water bill include grey and sewage or is that part of the rates bill?

With the new water-authorities you're being billed for drinking water, stormwater and sewage. There are exceptions, such as if you belong to private water scheme of some sort.

Boy, I'm glad we didn't end up with that 3 waters thing /s

Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is knowing not to put it in fruit salad.

cddt

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#3517449 6-Aug-2026 06:36

floydbloke:

I should have phrased it differently: "media reporting suggests"

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/education/596411/half-a-billion-dollar-price-tag-for-wellington-water-meter-roll-out-not-credible-mayor

$590M/140k = $4214.29

That's a lot of money per household. How did other regions manage?

Bung

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#3517453 6-Aug-2026 07:13

I wonder how much that cost compares to the amounts paid in the past by swimming pool owners and others who chose to be metered. When entire neighbourhoods are done at the same time there should be economy of scale.

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