Another sad day for France

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#1595055 19-Jul-2016 14:25

MikeB4:
...these people are deeply disturbed and radicalised ...

"Radicalised" has been bandied about a lot recently. It seems that everyone who has done something horrific must have been "radicalised". By implication, if "radicalisation" can be prevented, horrific things can be prevented, so it's apparently important to identify how that happened. We've been told that people were radicalised in mosques, in Libyan training camps, and on the Internet.

Well, Google's definition says a "radical" is "a person who advocates thorough or complete political or social reform; a member of a political party or part of a party pursuing such aims.". By George, I do believe I've been radicalised somewhere along the line. It must have been the Internet that did it, because I haven't been to Libya or set foot in a mosque.

I'd say that the best of NZ's politicians and leaders were once considered radicals. But nowadays it seems that it's a bad thing to be radical... we should all just be sheeple and let others set the agenda, even (especially?) if things are getting worse.

gzt

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#1595079 19-Jul-2016 15:03

It's pretty hard to tell where you might be going with that one.

Rikkitic

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#1595087 19-Jul-2016 15:14

The way the term is currently bandied about by the media, 'radicalised' seems to be almost synonymous with 'terrorist'. I think the difference is believing in social change to the extent of social upheaval, and being prepared to use all political and propaganda resources at your disposal to bring that about, as opposed to believing in the same, but being prepared to kill as many as necessary to cow them into submission. That is a big difference.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

frankv

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#1595132 19-Jul-2016 16:35

Rikkitic:

The way the term is currently bandied about by the media, 'radicalised' seems to be almost synonymous with 'terrorist'. I think the difference is believing in social change to the extent of social upheaval, and being prepared to use all political and propaganda resources at your disposal to bring that about, as opposed to believing in the same, but being prepared to kill as many as necessary to cow them into submission. That is a big difference.

I don't think that terrorists want to "cow people into submission", except maybe when they've already gained power. For most, it's more like they want their views to be recognised by the powers-that-be. And are prepared to kill as many as necessary to do that, possibly including themselves. No different from revolutionaries since the year dot, I guess. Presumably the media don't want to use the word "revolutionary" because it has implications that something good might lie beyond the upheaval and killing.

I do wonder how someone gets "radicalised" though. There's a pejorative undertone of brainwashing and manipulation to the term. The implication is that you can't radicalise yourself... it's something that gets done to you. But perhaps it's just opening the eyes of the mark to the real world... "Look you idiot. You're being screwed over by the oppressive barons / king / queen / English / Spanish /government / multinationals / rich / elite / Pope / Protestants / clergy /oil companies / aliens". If the person says "By Jove! You're right. I'll do something about that!" then they've been radicalised.

MikeB4

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#1595176 19-Jul-2016 17:29

frankv:

Rikkitic:

The way the term is currently bandied about by the media, 'radicalised' seems to be almost synonymous with 'terrorist'. I think the difference is believing in social change to the extent of social upheaval, and being prepared to use all political and propaganda resources at your disposal to bring that about, as opposed to believing in the same, but being prepared to kill as many as necessary to cow them into submission. That is a big difference.

I don't think that terrorists want to "cow people into submission", except maybe when they've already gained power. For most, it's more like they want their views to be recognised by the powers-that-be. And are prepared to kill as many as necessary to do that, possibly including themselves. No different from revolutionaries since the year dot, I guess. Presumably the media don't want to use the word "revolutionary" because it has implications that something good might lie beyond the upheaval and killing.

I do wonder how someone gets "radicalised" though. There's a pejorative undertone of brainwashing and manipulation to the term. The implication is that you can't radicalise yourself... it's something that gets done to you. But perhaps it's just opening the eyes of the mark to the real world... "Look you idiot. You're being screwed over by the oppressive barons / king / queen / English / Spanish /government / multinationals / rich / elite / Pope / Protestants / clergy /oil companies / aliens". If the person says "By Jove! You're right. I'll do something about that!" then they've been radicalised.

Call it what you will, it does not change what has happened or what will happen.

xlinknz

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#1595265 19-Jul-2016 19:32

More like a sad day for humanity

Also note according to the UN 21,000 people die per day of hunger or hunger related causes mostly children, share a thought for them too.

But that is not as news worthy as "terrorism"

Fred99

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#1595569 20-Jul-2016 12:16

davidknz:

Fred99:

The source for that cartoon translation was RT, mouthpiece for Putin.

Ahhh.. No

There are two Putins

No there isn't. Putin's a thug.

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davidknz

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#1595584 20-Jul-2016 12:38

Fred99:

davidknz:

Ahhh.. No

There are two Putins

No there isn't. Putin's a thug.

Really ?? Is this knee jerk, what you read in the MSM, or do you have facts??

Did you look at the YouTube Clip I posted??

It shows clearly Putin has a fine sense of humour, a characteristic not commonly found in Thugs

Yes, he's tough. Tough enough to scare the Oligarchs that were ruining Russia...

He's told them that they are custodians , not owners.. of the assents they

plundered with the fall of the old Soviet Union...

And his public pronouncements have been for a return to diplomacy

and the rule of international law...

Fred99

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#1595589 20-Jul-2016 12:43

davidknz:

Fred99:

davidknz:

Ahhh.. No

There are two Putins

No there isn't. Putin's a thug.

Really ??

https://larussophobe.wordpress.com/putinmurders/

BurningBeard

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#1595615 20-Jul-2016 13:26

Sure seems like a thug to me...

My very metal Doctor Who theme

ajobbins

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#1595654 20-Jul-2016 14:28

afe66:

Serial killers are not called terrorists, nor strangely the American gun nuts who carry out mass shootings.... They are called gunman which shows that merely killing people doesn't make to a terrorist.

Deciding to call someone a terrorist has a political deminsion too, potentially daemonizing a section of the population.

Pretty sure this is the primary method used to determine which murderers are bestowed with the terrorist label.

Twitter: ajobbins

frankv

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#1595672 20-Jul-2016 15:06

davidknz:

It shows clearly Putin has a fine sense of humour, a characteristic not commonly found in Thugs

Really?

A big tipper and an easy touch for anyone looking for a handout, Capone had a good sense of humor and was often quoted in the newspapers.

“Sometimes it was absolutely unbelievable,” Ceric recalled. “He said, ‘I am an excellent poet, I am an excellent psychotherapist, I am an excellent businessman in the communist system.’ At the time, we thought it was his unique sense of humour.”

davidknz

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#1595689 20-Jul-2016 15:33

Fred99:

No there isn't. Putin's a thug.

https://larussophobe.wordpress.com/putinmurders/

Ahh la..russo..phobe..
A blog started on 20007 by Kim Zigfeld,
whose starting point is a blanket fear/hatred of matters Russia,
followed by the frantic search for 'the evidence'
Reprinted in Washington Post ( WaPo), a newspaper of record that
was a cheerleader for the invasion of Iraq
(They have WMD! Where? Oh never mind.. Over a million Iraqi killed? Oh never mind)
( Its spread to Syria - Oh well Assads a dictator..Refugees to Turkey.. not our problem)
( Erdogan weaponising refugees .. Oh thats the EUs problem. Nice..did someone mention karma??)

I would have thought that if you were claiming someone was a murderer, you would
give them the right to speak for them selves

Did you watch the YouTube reference I gave??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4SZ49_bS0Y

I'm guessing not. Heres a couple more

http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/putin-international-situation-today-start-world-war-ii/ri15124

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PgSX-WD96Q

You can actually watch / read all of Putins speeches here..

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/20603

Why not cut out the middleman ( or woman in this case) and go to the source..

You'll see a world class statesman in action..Unless you've already made up your mind :-)