Newbie share trading.

Forums › Off topic › Newbie share trading.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4

tdgeek

29749 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1824767 18-Jul-2017 20:50

Kol12:

If my understanding is correct would you actually need to invest quite large sums of money in stocks to make short term gains on the NZX? Looking over some company price histories it seems stocks on the NZX don't go up a heck over short term periods, the data I'm seeing is around $1 over a years period. Remember I'm completely new to the NZX so my observations may be wrong, but it does seem like you'd need to hold stocks for some time to make useful gains, at least on the NZX...

Regarding Sharesies Smartshares came up as being the main place to go for ETF trading but I will check out Sharesies again.

Wrong. Your looking at % gains. Whether thats $50 or $50,000, you want a % gain.

On reflection, your keen on some short term trading, but you cant look at that as SHORT. You can invest in BNZ or another blue chip, or a second tier or overlooked third tier stock, but forget about big % over short term. It can happen and does, but you want growth, not L+M Oil at 3c today and 5c in two weeks.

tdgeek

29749 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1824768 18-Jul-2017 20:52

Sam91:

Another +1 for Sharesies, I hadn't heard of them until they were mentioned in this thread. There's a 24 minute interview with the CEO of Sharesies here.

Sharesies seems like a good option for the OP. It's so easy to get started and it's really easy to use. So far I'm up just over $1 on my $100 investment.

FYI, they have a yearly fee rather than a fee per transaction. It's a flat fee of $30 per year, but if you sign up at the moment you'll get $20 added to your wallet once you pay the $30 fee. This has probably already been mentioned in this thread.

jonathan18:

I know this post was from a while back, but just to say thanks to those who have raised Sharesies as an option. While not wanting to thread-cr@p, this does seem a good option for someone like me, who doesn't have the time (and is not that interested) to put lots of effort into coming up to speed in order to dabble effectively in the share market. A year or so back I started a thread on GZ, seeking advice re investing in SmartShares or similar, and ended up not doing anything about it, but Sharesies appears even easier to manage.

Given it's a small start-up, I just wanted to be clear (and displaying my ignorance here!) - in the situation that the company itself goes under, I assume the "shares" are held in trust and thus would not be affected? (I'm assuming they're essentially a middle-man, but I may not be understanding how it works.) Thanks for any tips and guidance.

This is answered in this interview at 6:50.

Sharesies. The website is very bland. That bugs me. I read earlier here another similar site is NZX managed. Great idea though

tdgeek

29749 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1824769 18-Jul-2017 20:55

Sam91:
Kol12:

@st02197 What is the difference between Superlife and Smartshares? The way you describe it they sound pretty much the same...

I am set up to trade with ANZ securities also and I agree trading ETF's with them would not be suitable if you are looking to make regular contributions...

Would I be wasting my time having a little play with a couple of hundred dollars on an individual stock to get a feel?

I'm currently playing with NZX Virtual trading. If I'm reading things correctly I made $13 on Chorus today and I only brought the stocks today, that seems pretty neat no? My Ryman are worth $11 more than initial buy price over the course of 1-2 days also.

A few years ago I was going to do the same thing. I soon realised it's pointless because of the fees involved. Let's say you invest $100 in Chorus, you'll be charged somewhere around $30 for your purchase, then when you decide to sell you'll be up for a similar (possibly greater) fee. So your investment would have to increase to around $160 just to break even. That's why it doesn't make sense to invest with small amounts. Sharesies exists for this very reason, they want to make investing accessible to everyone.

Thats misleading. 30% fees both ways? maybe if you buy 4 shares. What if you buy $1000 worth? $10,000 worth?

st02197

36 posts

Geek

#1824772 18-Jul-2017 21:01

tdgeek:

Sam91:
Kol12:

@st02197 What is the difference between Superlife and Smartshares? The way you describe it they sound pretty much the same...

I am set up to trade with ANZ securities also and I agree trading ETF's with them would not be suitable if you are looking to make regular contributions...

Would I be wasting my time having a little play with a couple of hundred dollars on an individual stock to get a feel?

I'm currently playing with NZX Virtual trading. If I'm reading things correctly I made $13 on Chorus today and I only brought the stocks today, that seems pretty neat no? My Ryman are worth $11 more than initial buy price over the course of 1-2 days also.

A few years ago I was going to do the same thing. I soon realised it's pointless because of the fees involved. Let's say you invest $100 in Chorus, you'll be charged somewhere around $30 for your purchase, then when you decide to sell you'll be up for a similar (possibly greater) fee. So your investment would have to increase to around $160 just to break even. That's why it doesn't make sense to invest with small amounts. Sharesies exists for this very reason, they want to make investing accessible to everyone.

Thats misleading. 30% fees both ways? maybe if you buy 4 shares. What if you buy $1000 worth? $10,000 worth?

I agree with you that the fees will start making sense once you buy $1000+. Though I think that the origin of the comment was the question from the OP about investing $200 to start getting a feel about investing. :)

Kol12

370 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1824773 18-Jul-2017 21:01

tdgeek:

Kol12:

If my understanding is correct would you actually need to invest quite large sums of money in stocks to make short term gains on the NZX? Looking over some company price histories it seems stocks on the NZX don't go up a heck over short term periods, the data I'm seeing is around $1 over a years period. Remember I'm completely new to the NZX so my observations may be wrong, but it does seem like you'd need to hold stocks for some time to make useful gains, at least on the NZX...

Regarding Sharesies Smartshares came up as being the main place to go for ETF trading but I will check out Sharesies again.

Wrong. Your looking at % gains. Whether thats $50 or $50,000, you want a % gain.

On reflection, your keen on some short term trading, but you cant look at that as SHORT. You can invest in BNZ or another blue chip, or a second tier or overlooked third tier stock, but forget about big % over short term. It can happen and does, but you want growth, not L+M Oil at 3c today and 5c in two weeks.

Yes but a % of 50,000 be much larger than the same % of $500. So a larger sum of money should be able to create gains in shorter timeframe's, wrong?

Edit: If short term gains are not really a reality what is short term trading? Is this more common on more robust stock markets i.e foreign?

tdgeek

29749 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1824775 18-Jul-2017 21:05

st02197:

tdgeek:

Sam91:
Kol12:

@st02197 What is the difference between Superlife and Smartshares? The way you describe it they sound pretty much the same...

I am set up to trade with ANZ securities also and I agree trading ETF's with them would not be suitable if you are looking to make regular contributions...

Would I be wasting my time having a little play with a couple of hundred dollars on an individual stock to get a feel?

I'm currently playing with NZX Virtual trading. If I'm reading things correctly I made $13 on Chorus today and I only brought the stocks today, that seems pretty neat no? My Ryman are worth $11 more than initial buy price over the course of 1-2 days also.

A few years ago I was going to do the same thing. I soon realised it's pointless because of the fees involved. Let's say you invest $100 in Chorus, you'll be charged somewhere around $30 for your purchase, then when you decide to sell you'll be up for a similar (possibly greater) fee. So your investment would have to increase to around $160 just to break even. That's why it doesn't make sense to invest with small amounts. Sharesies exists for this very reason, they want to make investing accessible to everyone.

Thats misleading. 30% fees both ways? maybe if you buy 4 shares. What if you buy $1000 worth? $10,000 worth?

I agree with you that the fees will start making sense once you buy $1000+. Though I think that the origin of the comment was the question from the OP about investing $200 to start getting a feel about investing. :)

Fair enough. Many things these days start with a flat fee then %, so a low spend = high %

Sam91

620 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1824776 18-Jul-2017 21:09

tdgeek:

Sam91:

A few years ago I was going to do the same thing. I soon realised it's pointless because of the fees involved. Let's say you invest $100 in Chorus, you'll be charged somewhere around $30 for your purchase, then when you decide to sell you'll be up for a similar (possibly greater) fee. So your investment would have to increase to around $160 just to break even. That's why it doesn't make sense to invest with small amounts. Sharesies exists for this very reason, they want to make investing accessible to everyone.

Thats misleading. 30% fees both ways? maybe if you buy 4 shares. What if you buy $1000 worth? $10,000 worth?

He's thinking of investing a few hundred dollars, not $1000 or $10,000. There's a minimum transaction fee of $30 on a number of platforms, so I was explaining why it wouldn't make sense for him to try and trade with such a small amount.

@st02197 understood what I meant.

tdgeek:

Fair enough. Many things these days start with a flat fee then %, so a low spend = high %

Exactly

Quic Broadband

Move to New Zealand's best fibre broadband service (affiliate link). Free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE. Note that to use Quic Broadband you must be comfortable with configuring your own router.

tdgeek

29749 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1824777 18-Jul-2017 21:09

Kol12:

tdgeek:

Kol12:

If my understanding is correct would you actually need to invest quite large sums of money in stocks to make short term gains on the NZX? Looking over some company price histories it seems stocks on the NZX don't go up a heck over short term periods, the data I'm seeing is around $1 over a years period. Remember I'm completely new to the NZX so my observations may be wrong, but it does seem like you'd need to hold stocks for some time to make useful gains, at least on the NZX...

Regarding Sharesies Smartshares came up as being the main place to go for ETF trading but I will check out Sharesies again.

Wrong. Your looking at % gains. Whether thats $50 or $50,000, you want a % gain.

On reflection, your keen on some short term trading, but you cant look at that as SHORT. You can invest in BNZ or another blue chip, or a second tier or overlooked third tier stock, but forget about big % over short term. It can happen and does, but you want growth, not L+M Oil at 3c today and 5c in two weeks.

Yes but a % of 50,000 be much larger than the same % of $500. So a larger sum of money should be able to create gains in shorter timeframe's, wrong?

Edit: If short term gains are not really a reality what is short term trading? Is this more common on more robust stock markets i.e foreign?

No, your statement implied that to make better money you need to invest more. Now, if you invest $50k and get a 15% gain, you will obviously, get more if you invested $250k, that's basic math. But you implied that you will be more successful if you invested a lot of money as compared to a small amount. I could invest $300 and get 30% gain. You could invest $50k and get 1%.

tdgeek

29749 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1824778 18-Jul-2017 21:10

Kol12:

tdgeek:

Kol12:

If my understanding is correct would you actually need to invest quite large sums of money in stocks to make short term gains on the NZX? Looking over some company price histories it seems stocks on the NZX don't go up a heck over short term periods, the data I'm seeing is around $1 over a years period. Remember I'm completely new to the NZX so my observations may be wrong, but it does seem like you'd need to hold stocks for some time to make useful gains, at least on the NZX...

Regarding Sharesies Smartshares came up as being the main place to go for ETF trading but I will check out Sharesies again.

Wrong. Your looking at % gains. Whether thats $50 or $50,000, you want a % gain.

On reflection, your keen on some short term trading, but you cant look at that as SHORT. You can invest in BNZ or another blue chip, or a second tier or overlooked third tier stock, but forget about big % over short term. It can happen and does, but you want growth, not L+M Oil at 3c today and 5c in two weeks.

Yes but a % of 50,000 be much larger than the same % of $500. So a larger sum of money should be able to create gains in shorter timeframe's, wrong?

Edit: If short term gains are not really a reality what is short term trading? Is this more common on more robust stock markets i.e foreign?

What is your definition of short? Genuine question not a dig :-)

Kol12

370 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1824792 18-Jul-2017 21:37

tdgeek:

Kol12:

Yes but a % of 50,000 be much larger than the same % of $500. So a larger sum of money should be able to create gains in shorter timeframe's, wrong?

Edit: If short term gains are not really a reality what is short term trading? Is this more common on more robust stock markets i.e foreign?

No, your statement implied that to make better money you need to invest more. Now, if you invest $50k and get a 15% gain, you will obviously, get more if you invested $250k, that's basic math. But you implied that you will be more successful if you invested a lot of money as compared to a small amount. I could invest $300 and get 30% gain. You could invest $50k and get 1%.

No I didn't imply that a larger investment would be more successful, I meant that it would have the potential to create a more worthwhile gain over shorter time periods. E.g If I invested only $500 I might have to wait a lot longer for any gain to be worthwhile. This would be based on the same stock where the percentage was the same for smaller and larger amounts of money. Your above scenario I think changes the point I'm trying to make...

Short term I guess anywhere from a day to a month to a year?

tdgeek

29749 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1824804 18-Jul-2017 21:58

Kol12:

tdgeek:

Kol12:

Yes but a % of 50,000 be much larger than the same % of $500. So a larger sum of money should be able to create gains in shorter timeframe's, wrong?

Edit: If short term gains are not really a reality what is short term trading? Is this more common on more robust stock markets i.e foreign?

No, your statement implied that to make better money you need to invest more. Now, if you invest $50k and get a 15% gain, you will obviously, get more if you invested $250k, that's basic math. But you implied that you will be more successful if you invested a lot of money as compared to a small amount. I could invest $300 and get 30% gain. You could invest $50k and get 1%.

No I didn't imply that a larger investment would be more successful, I meant that it would have the potential to create a more worthwhile gain over shorter time periods. E.g If I invested only $500 I might have to wait a lot longer for any gain to be worthwhile. This would be based on the same stock where the percentage was the same for smaller and larger amounts of money. Your above scenario I think changes the point I'm trying to make...

Short term I guess anywhere from a day to a month to a year?

Confusing. Its obvious a larger investment at the same % will yield more. The same applies to the ETF. Savings accounts etc.

Short term of one month is speculating. Mining shares. Dont go there except for fun. One year. Dont expect to locate a stock that will grow 50% in a year. It could. Back in the day I bought swags of Command Services. 1-45. Inside a year they had a 1 for 2 bonus issue, the shares went to 1-90. So 2 of my 1-45 shares became 3 at 1-90. Lucky. It was a good investment, a progressive company. Profits rise a solid amount every year. Buy other businesses. They were in a very cool industry. Cleaning. Yes, cleaning, boring as F, but progressive management. Whether they make Tesla cars or buttons, you want progressive management. This is a 2nd or 3rd tier area. If they increase earnings, the asset backing rises. If they are under valued or unfashionable, the P/E drops. Eventually, the public catch on.Demand grows P/E goes to what is correct, prices rise a high %. This is NOT pick a cool stock and watch. Watch the financial pages, watch the companies, watch the economy. A lot of this is human emotion. But if a company is successful and continues to be so, it will show in the share price, but its not linear.

Kol12

370 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1832374 27-Jul-2017 16:31

I'm on the Sharesies beta, I thought I would give it a shot.

I'm interested to hear from the other Sharesies users here as to what ETF you've chosen? I would like to pick one at this stage and I'm tossing up between Australia top 20 (OZY) and Australian Resources (ASR) Which would you pick?

1 | 2 | 3 | 4