The only real way Prince Andrew can clear his name is with a court victory

Forums › Off topic › The only real way Prince Andrew can clear his name is with a court victory

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#2851064 15-Jan-2022 01:36

Having read through my other replies again I saw that I made the point rather badly, so to clarify: I was responding to the title of the thread, how would a court hearing pan out? Since she was above the age of consent, and the defence will make out that she was just another one of the attractive girls (aka groupies) that Andrew surrounded himself with, what's the case for the prosecution?

Edited to add: Ah, just saw @Handle9's response. It still seems a bit of a stretch for the prosecution though.

SJB

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#2851068 15-Jan-2022 07:21

Does anyone else think Epstein was murdered rather than committed suicide?

cshwone

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#2851073 15-Jan-2022 07:52

neb: Having read through my other replies again I saw that I made the point rather badly, so to clarify: I was responding to the title of the thread, how would a court hearing pan out? Since she was above the age of consent, and the defence will make out that she was just another one of the attractive girls (aka groupies) that Andrew surrounded himself with, what's the case for the prosecution? Edited to add: Ah, just saw @Handle9's response. It still seems a bit of a stretch for the prosecution though.

The age of consent in Florida is 18 which is where the activities took place. Anyone over the age of 24 is committing statutory rape if they have sex with a 17 year old.

https://www.mikeglaw.com/romeo-and-juliet-law-florida/

Handle9

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#2851074 15-Jan-2022 08:01

neb: Having read through my other replies again I saw that I made the point rather badly, so to clarify: I was responding to the title of the thread, how would a court hearing pan out? Since she was above the age of consent, and the defence will make out that she was just another one of the attractive girls (aka groupies) that Andrew surrounded himself with, what's the case for the prosecution?

Edited to add: Ah, just saw @Handle9's response. It still seems a bit of a stretch for the prosecution though.

He’s not being prosecuted, it’s a civil suit. The hurdle is significantly lower than a criminal suit.

jonathan18

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#2851077 15-Jan-2022 08:21

Eva888:
Lol...As a female with daughters I hardly think the term misogynist fits. Try pragmatic.

The assumption that a woman can’t be misogynistic is just so wrong!

https://www.psychologytoday.com/nz/blog/the-mysteries-love/201908/12-ways-spot-female-misogynist

freitasm

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#2851080 15-Jan-2022 08:49

In case you folks haven't noticed, one person was banned for posting in this thread with personal attacks and name calling. So you will thread carefully as there's no warning.

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SJB

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#2851087 15-Jan-2022 09:54

cshwone:

neb: Having read through my other replies again I saw that I made the point rather badly, so to clarify: I was responding to the title of the thread, how would a court hearing pan out? Since she was above the age of consent, and the defence will make out that she was just another one of the attractive girls (aka groupies) that Andrew surrounded himself with, what's the case for the prosecution? Edited to add: Ah, just saw @Handle9's response. It still seems a bit of a stretch for the prosecution though.

The age of consent in Florida is 18 which is where the activities took place. Anyone over the age of 24 is committing statutory rape if they have sex with a 17 year old.

https://www.mikeglaw.com/romeo-and-juliet-law-florida/

According to what I have read the activities took place in New York, London and US Virgin Islands not Florida. NY is 17 years old, London is 16 and the Virgin Islands is 18 so it depends on her age when they were in the US Virgin Islands.

Andrew is not the sharpest knife in the drawer (none of the Queens kids are) but his defence of 'I never met her' was always going to be extremely risky especially if they were out in public together. It only needed a paparazzi picture to surface and it was game over.

I would have thought a better strategy would have been to admit it immediately but to maintain that you never knew that Epstein/Maxwell had pressured her into the relationship. After all there were 3 occasions so if you had to defend yourself you could say that you were flattered by her attentions and that she never objected to the sex. She might find that difficult to counter.

You might also allege that there had been many occasions over the years when girls had wanted to have sex with you just because of who you were and this occasion was no different except that you were attracted to her and succumbed.

As for the age issue you could always use the old chestnut of 'she looked and acted much older'. In the photo of them together I doubt many people would have put her as young as 17.

With his current strategy I think he's a dead man walking. Maybe he needs me as his defence lawyer.

Geektastic

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#2851093 15-Jan-2022 10:30

One interesting question is this:

If the woman in question was indeed being exploited and didn't like it, why didn't she ask Prince Andrew to get her to a place of safety and call the police? Where he goes, the police close protection officers also go, so there were police within shouting distance.

Prince Andrew is certainly a person that enjoys the company of women, based on past reports. However, I find it difficult to be overly sympathetic to the claimant in this case.

SJB

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#2851097 15-Jan-2022 11:04

Geektastic: One interesting question is this:

If the woman in question was indeed being exploited and didn't like it, why didn't she ask Prince Andrew to get her to a place of safety and call the police? Where he goes, the police close protection officers also go, so there were police within shouting distance.

Prince Andrew is certainly a person that enjoys the company of women, based on past reports. However, I find it difficult to be overly sympathetic to the claimant in this case.

If her allegations are true she probably thought that he was in league with Epstein and Maxwell and trying something like that might put her in danger.

She seems to have a pretty strong personality these days. You wonder why she didn't just leave that life behind if she found it so distasteful although I obviously don't know what her personal circumstances were at the time. It's possible I suppose she had nowhere to go.

Eva888

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#2851112 15-Jan-2022 12:25

We are not talking about Ghislaine Maxwell here, we are discussing Virginia Giuffre who through unfortunate circumstances in her early life and time on the streets in her youth, chose of her own accord the life she led among the rich and powerful.

It’s sad for any young girl to have such a rotten start in life and the parents are as much to be blamed for her very early beginnings.

I suspect with all the life experience she has gained she is now likely a good mother and her past would be an embarrassment that she would want to excuse in some way to her children now that they are growing up. She has made a tidy amount in litigation, Netflix and interviews etc.

It struck me that in one interview a fellow colleague said that Virginia bragged about her time with the Prince. (I’d probably brag too if I’d attracted such a persona :)

Andrew was a bit of a chump and liked the ladies. Epstein provided what Andrew believed was secure access to women who would hold their tongue and not have him all over the tabloids and it appears a number of other wealthy men fell into the same trap. I suspect there are quite a few now trembling at what else may come out. Will be interesting to see how Teflon Bill Clinton will escape this time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Giuffre There is also a link in her bio to her victimsrefusesilence website which was mentioned by someone here. It was surprisingly bare.

Huge exception for when children are involved or there is proven violence. I continue to feel sorry for those whose lives and families have been ruined by litigation and accusations that pop up many years after the actual events when they were youthful, foolish and the world view of the day was different. Memories seem to become livelier according to the wealth or position.

From experience I’ve found, 'follow the money' if you want real reasons and truth.

@freitasm All good. Maybe the poster with the spirited and vigorous response could be let off.

gzt

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#2851126 15-Jan-2022 13:24

Eva888:, we are discussing Virginia Giuffre who through unfortunate circumstances in her early life and time on the streets in her youth, chose of her own accord the life she led among the rich and powerful.

'Chose of her own accord' is not accurate based on information available. The victim wss 17 and was offered training as a massage therapist. The offer of training was false. The training turned out to be nothing more than Epstein saying up a bit down a bit.

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neb

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#2851129 15-Jan-2022 13:39

SJB:
Andrew is not the sharpest knife in the drawer (none of the Queens kids are) but his defence of 'I never met her' was always going to be extremely risky especially if they were out in public together. It only needed a paparazzi picture to surface and it was game over.

I think that's an understatement, after seeing bits of that train wreck of an interview he gave I'd say "uncredited extra for Upper Class Twit of the Year" would be a better description. All he had to do was remind people of his reputation as a womaniser, I mean the guy was widely referred to as Randy Andy in the press (a history going back at least to Dirty Bertie and his fine work on Anglo-French relations) and state that while he didn't recall meeting the young lady in question, it's quite possible they had some sort of interaction. Instead, he aims for his foot, gives it both barrels, pauses to reload, shoots again...

SJB

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#2851130 15-Jan-2022 13:39

She could have rejected Epsteins requests (and therefore his employment) the first time he made them but maybe her early life had made her fearful of the repercussions or made her think she just had to go along with it.

However she was then prostituted around the world, presumably in luxury, by Epstein for the next 2 years before she met her future husband and broke with Epstein. In all that time you would think that she could have left if she had wanted to.

Another thought on Andrew. Maybe he thought he was having sex with a prostitute. Once the accusations surfaced that's not something a son of the Queen can own up to.

cshwone

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#2851134 15-Jan-2022 13:44

SJB:

cshwone:

[

The age of consent in Florida is 18 which is where the activities took place. Anyone over the age of 24 is committing statutory rape if they have sex with a 17 year old.

https://www.mikeglaw.com/romeo-and-juliet-law-florida/

According to what I have read the activities took place in New York, London and US Virgin Islands not Florida. NY is 17 years old, London is 16 and the Virgin Islands is 18 so it depends on her age when they were in the US Virgin Islands.

I stand corrected. She was introduced in Florida but as you say the activities were as above.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59974220

gzt

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#2851180 15-Jan-2022 17:22

SJB: Another thought on Andrew. Maybe he thought he was having sex with a prostitute.

Under UK law it is illegal to participate in that with someone under 18.

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