Paddy Gower's Issue With Feral Cats

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#3101071 7-Jul-2023 20:27

Bluntj:
I am getting long in the tooth now, but I clearly remember when dogs were allowed to freely roam and cause havoc. The same issues with cats is now being played out.

Cats need to be licensed/chipped in the community where large discounts are available to owners of desexed animals. Clearly there is a large proportion of cat lovers who are responsible owners, but as always it is the miniority that ruins it for everyone. It is the minority who let their animals go feral in the first place and by compulsory chipping owners would be held responsible in a lot of cases.

Its is going to happen sooner rather than later.

Chipping cat owners would be an excellent start….

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#3101078 7-Jul-2023 20:42

networkn: None of the benefits you are speaking of applies to Feral cats though. Is that not the primary focus of the discussion?

It applies when people don't make a distinction between feral cats and domestic ones, or see all cats as evil, or want to destroy any cat that is outdoors. Unfortunately some, including maybe some here, here seem to think that way.

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#3101085 7-Jul-2023 21:30

Paul1977: Can't agree that keeping cats indoors is doing them a kindness. They may live longer on average, but why is that that?

@Paul1977 the problem is with you stating that you can’t agree with this is you’re putting human emotions on an animal. You’re giving them the opportunity for them to get into harms way and in your case this could mean getting into a cat fight, consuming something that harms or kills the cat, getting poisoned (this happens often), trapped or even still getting hit by a car. By keeping them indoors and out of harms way is keeping them safe. Yes, it is a prolonged average life.

Averages don't mean a lot to the individual. We ensure our cat is happy and healthy, and I don't believe keeping him indoors would prolong his life in our circumstances. I do think it would lower the quality of it though.

Note - I am not at all stating this will happen in your circumstance but just imagine for a second you had a person who lives on your street who hates cats and was leaving poisoned food out for them; I am not making this up, this is a super common case that the SPCA has to deal with often unfortunately (my wife used to work for the SPCA and has experienced it all). Cats can roam up to 2km away from your house and people are cruel. Cats as I stated are also opportunist killers so your cat could be responsible for killing native wildlife also. Unfortunately as cute as they are cats, including much loved domesticated cats are still a pest.

Indoor cats are generally far more relaxed and in many counties like Canada for example you need to else your cat is hunted by Coyote as a single example. Again, not saying this will happen to your cat but the point is it could. Cats adapt to indoor life super well because the fact is they don’t need to hunt for food or anything.

Your argument is very common but keeping an animal out of harms way and giving them a home they feel relaxed and happy in is the kind thing to do. You can’t argue with that but also I can't ague with your point that suddenly turning your cat into an indoor only cat won't potentially lower his quality of life given he has known outside all his life. You'll note however as he gets older he'll just stay around the house anyway and at that point you could consider converting him to indoor only with supervised outside time to keep him safe as many owners do.

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#3101106 7-Jul-2023 22:21

I live on a rural farm but I have an indoor cat and an outdoor one. The indoor one is my avatar and has been confined indoors since he was a kitten, initially because he was ill and needed protection, later because he reacted badly when I did let him go out. He sometimes indicates he would really like to go out, but he doesn't seem unhappy that he can't.

The other cat was part of a litter descended from farm strays that I hand-reared. He is completely domesticated and we have a strong bond. I let him out in the daytime but he never goes far from the yard. I keep him in at night and he sleeps cuddled up to me in bed. He is a terrible hunter but he catches mice when they jump into his lap. He also gets the occasional sparrow, but mice are much more common. He goes absolutely crazy if I don't let him out in the morning at his usual time.

I am not making any claims with this account. It is just my cat story.

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Wombat1

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#3101107 7-Jul-2023 22:39

Rikkitic:

I live on a rural farm but I have an indoor cat and an outdoor one. The indoor one is my avatar and has been confined indoors since he was a kitten, initially because he was ill and needed protection, later because he reacted badly when I did let him go out. He sometimes indicates he would really like to go out, but he doesn't seem unhappy that he can't.

The other cat was part of a litter descended from farm strays that I hand-reared. He is completely domesticated and we have a strong bond. I let him out in the daytime but he never goes far from the yard. I keep him in at night and he sleeps cuddled up to me in bed. He is a terrible hunter but he catches mice when they jump into his lap. He also gets the occasional sparrow, but mice are much more common. He goes absolutely crazy if I don't let him out in the morning at his usual time.

I am not making any claims with this account. It is just my cat story.

Cats are natural-born killers, and yours is out there every day doing just that. If it can catch a mouse, or a sparrow, Im willing to bet its out there catching geckos, lizards, weta, and baby birds etc too. Do the world a favour and keep your cat indoors mate.

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#3101109 7-Jul-2023 22:52

Wombat1:

Cats are natural-born killers, and yours is out there every day doing just that. If it can catch a mouse, or a sparrow, Im willing to bet its out there catching geckos, lizards, weta, and baby birds etc too. Do the world a favour and keep your cat indoors mate.

I've got a pretty good idea what it is killing because it proudly brings all its victims to the door. The mice it eliminates no longer compete with geckos, lizards, weta and baby birds for resources. The real ferals in this country are the people who keep dumping cats out where I live. Do something about them and then talk to me about my cat's activities. Mate.

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#3101152 8-Jul-2023 08:23

rjh:

mkissin:

TBH, NZers right to bear cats is as incomprehensible as the US right to bear arms...

i think we have just crossed into the twilight zone

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#3101165 8-Jul-2023 09:16

michaelmurfy: the problem is with you stating that you can’t agree with this is you’re putting human emotions on an animal. You’re giving them the opportunity for them to get into harms way and in your case this could mean getting into a cat fight, consuming something that harms or kills the cat, getting poisoned (this happens often), trapped or even still getting hit by a car. By keeping them indoors and out of harms way is keeping them safe. Yes, it is a prolonged average life.

Note - I am not at all stating this will happen in your circumstance but just imagine for a second you had a person who lives on your street who hates cats and was leaving poisoned food out for them; I am not making this up, this is a super common case that the SPCA has to deal with often unfortunately (my wife used to work for the SPCA and has experienced it all). Cats can roam up to 2km away from your house and people are cruel. Cats as I stated are also opportunist killers so your cat could be responsible for killing native wildlife also. Unfortunately as cute as they are cats, including much loved domesticated cats are still a pest.

Indoor cats are generally far more relaxed and in many counties like Canada for example you need to else your cat is hunted by Coyote as a single example. Again, not saying this will happen to your cat but the point is it could. Cats adapt to indoor life super well because the fact is they don’t need to hunt for food or anything.

Your argument is very common but keeping an animal out of harms way and giving them a home they feel relaxed and happy in is the kind thing to do. You can’t argue with that but also I can't ague with your point that suddenly turning your cat into an indoor only cat won't potentially lower his quality of life given he has known outside all his life. You'll note however as he gets older he'll just stay around the house anyway and at that point you could consider converting him to indoor only with supervised outside time to keep him safe as many owners do.

@michaelmurfy We aren’t going to agree on this one.

I may be attributing human emotions to my cat when I say he’s “happy” but, even if I am, I don’t see how that inherently invalidates my belief that a cats quality of life is better if they have access to the outdoors.

Yes, an indoor only cat is safer, but they are also an extra step removed from their natural state. I know domestic cats don’t have a true “natural state” since they’ve been bred to be pets, but they do have a “nature” and I think “cats need to do cat things”. Allowing our cat outdoors is a risk, but a calculated one.

We’d all be safer if we never left the house, but it wouldn’t be much of a life. I am definitely putting human emotions onto cats making that comparison, but you can’t know that an indoor only cat has as good a (or better) quality of life as an indoor+outdoor cat any more than I can know they don’t. We can only each have our beliefs.

Our cat might be the exception, but he couldn’t be more friendly and chilled out if he was high.

I’m not saying keeping cats indoors is cruel, or that they’re miserable. I just think they’re missing out. If it became law that cats had to be kept indoors, I would never get another cat.

I’m not going to pretend. My cat’s been in several cat fights, and has regular stand offs with the neighbours cat. But that’s part of being a cat. He’s also caught and killed birds in the past, but certainly nothing even close to being scarce or endangered. I’d rather he didn’t, and I’d always rescue any he’s caught if I could, but (again) that’s part of being a cat. He’s also killed mice, so it’s not all bad. He was doing what is in his nature to do, but age has caught up with him enough that he’s a bit too slow to catch anything now.

If he chooses in his old age to stay inside that’s fine, he has a litter tray available. But I’m not going to force him unless I’m legally compelled (the only exception being if it became known there was a cat poisoner/abuser in the area).

I certainly hope he doesn’t get caught by a coyote; but, in the suburbs of Christchurch, it’s a risk I’m willing to take!

Anyway, we’ve veered right off the FERAL cat topic.

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#3101198 8-Jul-2023 10:30

Paul1977: ....

Most of us live in suburbia, therefore arguing that a cat needs some of its "natural state" or they "missing out" is a moot point. Of course they are missing out. We can't provide that in suburbia unless we put up some really high walls around our property. If you live in suburbia, and dont want your cat missing out then I suggest not having a cat. Or put up those high walls but the council may stop you doing that anyway.

Its not right allowing a cat to roam into other peoples yards.

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#3101205 8-Jul-2023 11:01

Wombat1: Just make it law for cat owners in NZ to keep their cats indoors like here in QLD. You must prevent your cat from wandering and causing a nuisance to neighbours. Its not right anyway that people in NZ think that because they have a cat their cat has a right to roam, and poop in neighbors property. Those cats go off at night and make other baby cats. They just doing what cats do.

Before anybody judges me as a cat hater - I have two cats as well as a dog. There is no need for them to go roaming.

Agree with this and what michaelmurfy has been saying.

Our first cat, we're in a semi rural setting, used to kill all sorts of insects and lizards as well as the occasional mouse. She was hit by a car when only about 1 year old which was quite traumatic for our (at the time) 9 year-old. We replaced her shortly after with a rescue cat. This particular cat had spent approximately the first 3-4 months of life as a stray and after being captured had been neutered then taken in by a shelter. When we took her, she spent the first 3 days in the house hiding under a bed and it took months for her to become fully used to us. We don't let her outside for 2 reasons:
1. preservation of wildlife
2. preservation of her life

These days, at about 1.5 years-old, she's a very contented cat who likes looking out of the windows but doesn't ever try to go outside, even on the odd occasion when doors have been accidentally left open. She's always been skittish, which is understandable, but is slowly getting better with visitors. We have a lot more birds around now, and probably lizards etc too.

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#3101215 8-Jul-2023 11:48

Most of us live in suburbia, therefore arguing that a cat needs some of its "natural state" or they "missing out" is a moot point. Of course they are missing out. We can't provide that in suburbia unless we put up some really high walls around our property. If you live in suburbia, and dont want your cat missing out then I suggest not having a cat. Or put up those high walls but the council may stop you doing that anyway.

Its not right allowing a cat to roam into other peoples yards.

For longer than any of us have been alive it’s been accepted as perfectly normal for a pet cat to come and go as they please. You may think it’s “not right”, but that’s just your opinion.

I suspect I’m in the minority on this forum, but there certainly isn’t a consensus among the general public that pet cats should be kept indoors.

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#3101290 8-Jul-2023 12:46

Feral humans next?

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#3101303 8-Jul-2023 13:15

Paul1977:
Most of us live in suburbia, therefore arguing that a cat needs some of its "natural state" or they "missing out" is a moot point. Of course they are missing out. We can't provide that in suburbia unless we put up some really high walls around our property. If you live in suburbia, and dont want your cat missing out then I suggest not having a cat. Or put up those high walls but the council may stop you doing that anyway.

Its not right allowing a cat to roam into other peoples yards.

For longer than any of us have been alive it’s been accepted as perfectly normal for a pet cat to come and go as they please. You may think it’s “not right”, but that’s just your opinion.

I suspect I’m in the minority on this forum, but there certainly isn’t a consensus among the general public that pet cats should be kept indoors.

"not right" is law where I live. For good reason. Its a Kiwi thing that people seem to think its OK to let cats roam.

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#3101312 8-Jul-2023 13:59

There's some weird double standard in play here. Most people accept that cats wander all over the neighbourhood, but will raise all sorts of fuss the moment a dog does it. Why is that? It is just as much in a dog's 'nature' to explore things.

If I were to spray the hose at next door's cat stalking the fantails or annoying the pukekos, I'd get yelled at.

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#3101315 8-Jul-2023 14:12

I get what you're saying, but I'm not so sure it's a double standard as much as a perceived threat to humans. Dog attacks don't happen often, fortunately, but they do happen. Not sure when I last read about Mrs Miggins' tabby attacking anyone :-D

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