Public Holiday Trading Rules

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#3212741 1-Apr-2024 10:29

tdgeek:

The lecturing is from those that suffer emotionally when businesses paying heavy penal rates decide to increase their revenue to help offset those increased costs.

$3 on a $30 breakfast, geez, yes, its getting old and tiresome.

Nothing you have said here is factual. The lecturing is from primarily one person who has been quite vocal in their shouting about entitlement if you don't agree with them that surcharging is just fine and going to another place that doesn't do it is immoral and you're destroying businesses, and that there should be even more days where trading isn't allowed.

Most people recognise that it's a business choice whether to do it, just like it's a consumer choice whether to patronise any specific establishment for whatever reason the individual chooses, which may or may not include the total cost including any surcharges.

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#3212743 1-Apr-2024 10:37

Lias:

I think we should _abolish_ all public holidays in their entirety and just give everyone an additional 12 days annual leave. Failing that, yes public holiday trading rules need to be taken out the back and shot, the concept of virtually an entire nation stopping is not fit for purpose for the 21st century, nevermind the fact most of the reason we do it is because of antiquated sky zombie mumbo jumbo. Things like restricted sale hours for alcohol also need to go, and anything else in the way of legislative or regulatory hurdles to a truly 24x7x365 society.

I'm not sure I entirely agree. For a start, I vehemently oppose anything that increases access to alcohol.

That aside, the idea of giving everyone extra annual leave doesn't help casuals, who don't have annual leave. It also doesn't help full timers or part timers, since annual leave can only be taken with the agreement of the employer or at their direction. If the employer keeps refusing leave requests, which the employment agreement and the law entitles them to do, the employee could theoretically never get to take leave at all. Significant law changes would need to occur around employee rights to holidays before your idea could even be considered.

To trading hours, I agree on that one, with the catch that safeguards need to be put in place to prevent retaliation against staff who choose not to work on public holidays.

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#3212750 1-Apr-2024 10:59

Kyanar:

tdgeek:

The lecturing is from those that suffer emotionally when businesses paying heavy penal rates decide to increase their revenue to help offset those increased costs.

$3 on a $30 breakfast, geez, yes, its getting old and tiresome.

Nothing you have said here is factual. The lecturing is from primarily one person who has been quite vocal in their shouting about entitlement if you don't agree with them that surcharging is just fine and going to another place that doesn't do it is immoral and you're destroying businesses, and that there should be even more days where trading isn't allowed.

Most people recognise that it's a business choice whether to do it, just like it's a consumer choice whether to patronise any specific establishment for whatever reason the individual chooses, which may or may not include the total cost including any surcharges.

Disagree. Who is entitled? The few here that see covering actual extra costs is fair or those that dont want their wallet affected while the cafe owners wear the extra cost?

"businesses paying heavy penal rates decide to increase their revenue to help offset those increased costs." is factual

"The lecturing" is factual.

Either way its an opinion both ways. But when some see it as annoying as they do is a little odd. The surcharge is small, and there is a reason for it, not the type of topic that gets some vocal. And the vocal one you infer is just stating his opinion, he isnt the one borderline name calling.

"Most people recognise that it's a business choice whether to do it, just like it's a consumer choice whether to patronise any specific establishment for whatever reason the individual chooses, which may or may not include the total cost including any surcharges."

No one disagrees with that, so no real need for some seeing it as a big deal.

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#3212825 1-Apr-2024 12:42

tdgeek:

Disagree. Who is entitled? The few here that see covering actual extra costs is fair or those that dont want their wallet affected while the cafe owners wear the extra cost?

Ok, correction, the two people lecturing everyone about how it's "entitled" if you don't agree with their opinion that surcharges are warranted and you're immoral and destroying businesses if you dare to exercise consumer choice and make a personal decision which places you patronise for any reason or no reason at all that may or may not include surcharges.

tdgeek:

"The lecturing" is factual.

Yes, BY YOU.

I'm out on this thread too. Zealots everywhere.

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#3212834 1-Apr-2024 13:29

Kyanar:

tdgeek:

Disagree. Who is entitled? The few here that see covering actual extra costs is fair or those that dont want their wallet affected while the cafe owners wear the extra cost?

Ok, correction, the two people lecturing everyone about how it's "entitled" if you don't agree with their opinion that surcharges are warranted and you're immoral and destroying businesses if you dare to exercise consumer choice and make a personal decision which places you patronise for any reason or no reason at all that may or may not include surcharges.

tdgeek:

"The lecturing" is factual.

Yes, BY YOU.

I'm out on this thread too. Zealots everywhere.

At least two of us here have no issues with surcharges, in our OPINION they are fair and reasonable. Others have the other OPINION. The only ones lecturing are the anti surcharge brigade that (as someone else posted here, dont like it when others disagree) The issue is disagreeing in opinions is fine, pretending they are facts so its therefore unfair and unreasonable to disagree, as you say, zealots. At least we dont shout (as someone posted) Thats where discussion falls apart, too many options are stated as facts. They are opinions. So, on that stating some opinions that whoever doesnt agree with, is lecturing if they don't agree. Occasionally, discussions evolve into very heated arguments. Why? Because poster A is right and poster B is right, because both see their valid opinions as fact.

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#3212966 1-Apr-2024 17:46

tweake:

also we are not a 24x7x365 society, thankfully. 24/7 may be convenient for consumers but it sucks for workers.

We're not one yet, but there should be more freedom to move towards one. As someone who's day job can and whose side hustle does involve working late hours (IT and bouncing respectively) I'd quite like more freedom to be able to go for a beer, get some fast food or even go to the supermarket in the middle of the night. Bit of a side topic but having worked as a bouncer for many years, the concept of every bar having to shut at a certain time is really dumb.

tweake:

the other way is to do something like what the French do and everyone takes the same weeks off in summer. everything closes down. think Easter trading for 4 weeks straight. however that really sucks for farmers who cannot take time off in summer.

I cannot think of anything worse, if we ever did something like that I'd probably finally pull finger and move countries to somewhere not trying to live in the 1960's.

tweake:

having an entire nation stopping is not a bad thing.

We shall have to agree to disagree.

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#3212967 1-Apr-2024 18:00

Kyanar:

I'm not sure I entirely agree. For a start, I vehemently oppose anything that increases access to alcohol.

Going very off topic but hey we are in Off Topic so here goes lol..

NZ has a culture of problem drinking, but prohibition (be it total or limited) isn't now, nor ever has been, an effective answer to that. My belief is that there's a whole bunch of things we should be doing differently, some of which are potentially controversial, such as legalising other substances which peer reviewed research shows cause less societal harm (and yes that extends well beyond weed). We should be drastically increasing taxes on off license alcohol, so that it's cheaper to drink in licensed venues. Relatively little problem drinking occurs in licensed venues which have a legal obligation to manage intoxication and provide a safe environment. Enforcement against venues that are problematic should be stepped up however. We should ditch forced closing times, because it doesn't matter whether closing time is 6pm, 10pm, 1am, or 3am, if a bunch of venues close all at once, there's going to be issues with anti social behaviour as a bunch of people spill onto the streets. Other countries have bars that never close with less issues than we do, which means the problem isn't the time our bars close, it's our culture.

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#3212975 1-Apr-2024 19:21

Handle9: It is illegal not to pay staff on a public holiday.

Easter Sunday isn't a public holiday but a lot of businesses decide to close.

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#3212979 1-Apr-2024 19:36

Lias:

anything else in the way of legislative or regulatory hurdles to a truly 24x7x365 society.

Presumably relocating the orbit of the Earth to be between Mars and Jupiter, or redefining an hour to be eight and a half minutes.

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#3213046 1-Apr-2024 20:56

roobarb:

Presumably relocating the orbit of the Earth to be between Mars and Jupiter, or redefining an hour to be eight and a half minutes.

I'd say that's more a technology/physics hurdle than a regulatory or legislative one :-P

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#3213051 1-Apr-2024 21:10

tweake:

i think thats a terrible idea.

a business would then be forced to open because their opposition is open. therefore the workers have to work and the public holiday ceases to exist. its never a public holiday unless its enforce it to be one. if its a voluntary holiday (as you suggest) then most businesses will never give staff the time off, so its never going to be a holiday.

I think these are partially valid concerns. The idea isn't to try and get more people working per se, but don't forget, employees who work public holidays get time in Lieu, AND pay at the rate of time and a half. There are a lot of Kiwi's who are happy to work under those conditions, and a lot of people for whom Easter isn't a big deal. Whilst it's true that some businesses may feel compelled to open because their opposition is open, this is a choice. Lots of businesses make choices that prioritise staff well-being (4 day weeks, when their opposition work 5 days a week). I am not suggesting compelling people to be open, any more than I am suggesting banning of surcharges for public holidays, I am saying it should be a *choice* to open, as it should be possible for people to choose to support a business who doesn't surcharge on public holidays, without being set upon by those who wish to make the matter a moral or guilt issue.

As far as I know, it's already illegal to compel a worker to work a public holiday, but potentially additional protections could be put in place to ensure this is the case for the 12 or so public holidays. A lot of places open now regardless, and are happy to take the $1000 fine, as it's a rounding error on sales. If supermarket x closed on those holidays and supermarket y opened, to me as a potential worker, this is a consideration when deciding where I apply for work for example.

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#3213061 1-Apr-2024 21:26

Despite what Frank Sinatra sang, New York does actually sleep. Walk down Broadway after midnight and nearly everything is shut. I don't think NZ could sustain being open 24hr, not even the airports do it.

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#3213064 1-Apr-2024 21:31

HelloThere:
Handle9: It is illegal not to pay staff on a public holiday.

Easter Sunday isn't a public holiday but a lot of businesses decide to close.

Fair point. That’s the same issue as an annual shutdown (typically at Christmas) which is generally pretty amicable.

networkn

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#3213065 1-Apr-2024 21:31

roobarb:

Despite what Frank Sinatra sang, New York does actually sleep. Walk down Broadway after midnight and nearly everything is shut. I don't think NZ could sustain being open 24hr, not even the airports do it.

I may be mistaken, but I believe Lias is probably talking not about EVERYTHING open 24/7, but if key services had outlets in each major part of cities that were open 24/7, that could be useful.

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#3213071 1-Apr-2024 21:53

networkn:

but if key services had outlets in each major part of cities that were open 24/7, that could be useful.

Absolutely, hospitals, police, fire-service, petrol stations. It could catch on.

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