New Auckland harbour crossing

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#3459416 7-Feb-2026 01:21

The rationale for chip seal has been explained multiple times by @benoire who is an actual civil engineer as opposed to the arm chair experts who are convinced that New Zealand civil engineers deliver third world results.

It’s very simple maths. It can’t be that hard to understand.

cddt

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#3459423 7-Feb-2026 05:45

Handle9:

SaltyNZ:

Light rail can be quickly installed using prefabricated modules essentially just laid down on the existing road.

Unless it's in Auckland, where it takes 6 years to lay no tracks.

This is an absolute travesty and one of the key reasons Labour lost such a large share of the vote in Auckland. How can anyone believe them when they say they are going to fix transport?

Ge0rge

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#3459426 7-Feb-2026 07:20

mattwnz:

The new Te Ahu a Turanga Highway however seems to have been done well. Seems crazy that they still haven't replaced the old Rimutuka hill road, considering how dangerous it is, and the fact that in a big quake, people on it will likely die, so it is earthquake prone like many old buildings, and it will cut off a major transport link to Wellington. Yet they want to spend many times more on building a tunnel to saving a few minutes car travel time for politicians to get to the airport.

From memory, last I read it was going to be in the order of NZ$1b to build a new road over the hill - for a population of around 51k.

And as for the "Remutaka Road Action Group"... You can't just take a sharpie and draw a line on a map, causally ignoring contour lines, and say 'just build it there!'.

shk292

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#3459440 7-Feb-2026 09:17

Genuine question - with modern technology including gps and self driving, what advantage does light rail offer over a fleet of computer controlled electric buses which could drive in a train-like formation? Why do we need steel rails dug into the road to direct these vehicles? Just seems a bit 19th century to me

richms

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#3459468 7-Feb-2026 13:30

shk292:

Genuine question - with modern technology including gps and self driving, what advantage does light rail offer over a fleet of computer controlled electric buses which could drive in a train-like formation? Why do we need steel rails dug into the road to direct these vehicles? Just seems a bit 19th century to me

It doesn't. Look at what China are deploying with what many people call trackless trams to see what we might have in 20 years time if we are lucky. About all I can see is a clear visual that "car no go here" to people to not drive on it.

Same for continuous overhead catenary wires to power it. Battery is a thing.

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gzt

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#3459486 7-Feb-2026 15:25

Imo that's the answer to the question. In 20 years time is the key thing. There are a few systems running and in theory the busways we have now could be a good fit for some systems.

On the other hand we could buy a bunch of Teslas or similar in anticipation of the driverless mode coming next year every year since 2016 wink wink.

On the other hand I can see us buying that bus tech from China in 20 years time easily.

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#3459491 7-Feb-2026 16:04

shk292:

Genuine question - with modern technology including gps and self driving, what advantage does light rail offer over a fleet of computer controlled electric buses which could drive in a train-like formation? Why do we need steel rails dug into the road to direct these vehicles? Just seems a bit 19th century to me

technically rail is more efficient over long runs. just look at the differences in wheels. but for short city runs thats not a big deal. i would guess trains would also have less maintenance. rails don't pothole every time its rains. i would have to go ask but i suspect tracks would work out easier and cheaper to build and maintain than roads for the same traffic load.

also you still need a separate lane. at the moment even bus lanes still intermingle with traffic, something a road train is really bad at due to its size.

battery vers power lines. there is advantages to both. often its easy and cheap to run power down railway lines. but battery is good for trams operating around buildings/street where lines are difficult/expensive to install. if i remember right there is some in europe that do both. kinda a hybrid version that uses the power lines to recharge its battery. i assume that it can take advantage of the recharge when going downhill/stopping etc.

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#3459493 7-Feb-2026 16:11

Inroad charging is something else that's always just around the corner. It will enable less battery weight, decrease purchase cost, and increase efficiency. Likewise lots of small pilot projects since the year dot.

pdh

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#3459495 7-Feb-2026 16:27

>technically rail is more efficient over long runs. just look at the differences in wheels

A double-edged sword... Having ridden the rails in quite a number of cities (London, Singapore, Boston, SanFran, Chicago, Cape Town) over the past decade; I'd give noise as one of the seldom discussed disadvantages of rail. Quietness was touted as a major advantage when Montreal built it's subway in 1966 - using Michelin high-pressure tyres on smooth concrete tracks (horizontal for weight-bearing & vertical for guidance). To this day, a ride on the Montreal Metro is a whisper... whereas rides on the rail systems mentioned can be ear-damaging !

Another disadvantage of rail is susceptibility to disruption by threat or actual (terrorist) action, bad weather or simple breakdown. Much harder to disrupt a service with lots of discreet vehicles and easy route modification.

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#3459496 7-Feb-2026 16:27

I know a guy who's done some single lane tunnels:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/360935280/musks-underground-tunnels-las-vegas-face-scrutiny-over-safety-environmental-concerns

12 of those in parallel should do it.

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#3459497 7-Feb-2026 16:36

pdh: Another disadvantage of rail is susceptibility to disruption by threat or actual (terrorist) action, bad weather or simple breakdown. Much harder to disrupt a service with lots of discreet vehicles and easy route modification.

Terrorist attacks are rare and so are random threats really. Breakdown doesn't seem to be a big issue in practice. In terms of redundancy for the worst possible cases, cars and trucks are not going away anytime soon.

Auckland train issues seem to be about constant upgrades for an immature network and scheduled track maintenance.

Wellington seems to be very unlucky with random equipment failure for some reason. I'd guess there are big patches of older infrastructure in Wellington area but I have no direct knowledge of that.

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#3459500 7-Feb-2026 16:56

pdh:

>technically rail is more efficient over long runs. just look at the differences in wheels

A double-edged sword... Having ridden the rails in quite a number of cities (London, Singapore, Boston, SanFran, Chicago, Cape Town) over the past decade; I'd give noise as one of the seldom discussed disadvantages of rail. Quietness was touted as a major advantage when Montreal built it's subway in 1966 - using Michelin high-pressure tyres on smooth concrete tracks (horizontal for weight-bearing & vertical for guidance). To this day, a ride on the Montreal Metro is a whisper... whereas rides on the rail systems mentioned can be ear-damaging !

Another disadvantage of rail is susceptibility to disruption by threat or actual (terrorist) action, bad weather or simple breakdown. Much harder to disrupt a service with lots of discreet vehicles and easy route modification.

anything with rubber tires will be quieter and make it a lot nicer.

any service that only has one lane will have issues with break downs etc. however being able to get of the lane and drive in normal traffic is not possible with a "bus train" and even if it could, it gets stuck in traffic so the service fails anyway. this idea that you get a whole lot of buses driving together does not mean it can just drive on normal road. you can't mix it with normal traffic. which is why the "truck train" idea had bit the dust many years ago.

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#3459501 7-Feb-2026 17:02

gzt: Inroad charging is something else that's always just around the corner. It will enable less battery weight, decrease purchase cost, and increase efficiency. Likewise lots of small pilot projects since the year dot.

that will probably stay around the corner. as cool as the tech is, its really impractical. the maintenance aspect alone kills it.

but in road parking charging is a much better bet. less maintenance issues and you can actually sit there long enough for a decent charge. the install cost compared to usefulness is a whole lot better.

Handle9

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#3459505 7-Feb-2026 17:30

On a side note the third world University of Auckland engineering school did a lot of the basic research for inductive power transfer, which is what high power wireless charging is built off. John Boys is genuinely a genius even if it made him a hopeless lecturer.

richms

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#3459516 7-Feb-2026 18:19

The ones I saw a video on had a sort-of pantograph thing that raised when stopped at some stops to charge while it was there. Normal EV charging sucks for getting up to speed quickly but I am sure if they were to pre-negotiate with the charger before arrival they could kick straight up to a few 100kw that would get enough to cover the journey to the next one into the batteries in the time its waiting at them.

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