29 Miners Stuck in West Coast

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#408467 23-Nov-2010 18:51

There seem to be two worries about sending rescuers in:

some random instability and explosion might kill the rescuers

the rescuers might trigger a random explosion (footfall, static electricity, etc)

The defense dept robot is interesting and it broke. It is an explosives handling robot and has been specially designed for use in dangerous atmospheres (with no water apparently) otherwise it would be subject to #2?

If it wasn't subject to #2 any crazy robot would do the job.

It is a huge distance to pull cable, even a small cable.

Looks like Aussie is lending us a robot:

"A spokesman for WA Water Minister Graham Jacobs said an aircraft from New Zealand was expected to pick up the Water Corporation robot from Perth on Tuesday. The Water Corporation robot was employed to travel along pipes, Jacobs told Australia Associated Press, adding that it is a " robust, skid-steered remotely operated vehicle, equipped with cameras, lights, communications and gas testing equipment". The robot is controlled via a fibre-optic cable and has a range of up to six kilometers."

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2010-11/23/c_13618447.htm

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sarahk

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#408541 23-Nov-2010 21:10

You'd think in a country with a significant mining industry (not as significant as Aussie, but still...) we'd have some of the gizmos a bit better developed.

I've been criticised on Twitter for objecting to the use of search dogs (anyone have a spare canary?) as they can't even take alternate air with them and wouldn't know how to use the air lines.

Robots, however, would be useful for all sorts of monitoring within mines and could be used to patrol obsolete areas to ensure they stay clear and safe. Think of a more intelligent, robot version of the pool cleaner. I'm surprised they haven't been developed already.

If they need any help with future proofing I'll go get some Arduino and get to work :)

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sleemanj

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#408643 24-Nov-2010 00:40

This is a tragic situation for those involved, but the response has been exactly right, it's just not the dramatic hero story that the unwashed masses (excited by the media) want.

It will have been clear from the start that the likelyhood of survival past the first hour was minimal. Very minimal. It simply does not make any sense to put anybody at risk to do what is almost certainly body recovery, and if (by some miracle) there are still survivors down there then the chances are reasonable that they may continue to live for long enough that the situation is stable enough that assistance can be rendered.

The explosives robot, well I can only surmise it was to placate the forementioned unwashed masses, because it certainly had little chance of being any help at all, I'm surprised it would even have been able to drag a cable long enough. Even the specialist robot from AU I doubt will be too much assistance as I wouldn't think it can really go into any area with a high methane concentration (it can detect it, probably enough that the operator knows to stop).

Realistically, I don't think there is much that anybody can do, except to start trying to vent the mine to get it safe enough that the remains can be retrieved safely (and the mine reopen) in the next few months.

Hopefully the media get bored before then and the families can be left in peace to deal with their loss without intrusion.

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gzt

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#408644 24-Nov-2010 00:43

Most likely the cable is deployed from a reel on the robot.

sleemanj

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#408645 24-Nov-2010 00:54

gzt: Most likely the cable is deployed from a reel on the robot.

Hadn't thought of that. Still, needs to be at least 2500m of cable on that reel for it to have been useful, that's a fairly large reel I'd imagine.

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SCM

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#408649 24-Nov-2010 01:33

This audio raises some interesting points.
http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Jeremy-former-explosives-technician-with-the-Australian-Army-talks-Pike-R...

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#408663 24-Nov-2010 07:07

SCM: This audio raises some interesting points.
http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Jeremy-former-explosives-technician-with-the-Australian-Army-talks-Pike-R...

interesting indeed! his main points are:

1. the rescue should have been attempted within 30-90mins post explosion
2. the army should have involved in the rescue operation (esp bomb squad)
3. the longer we wait, the worst the outcome going to be

freitasm

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#408690 24-Nov-2010 08:20

Video of the blast as seen on CCTV recordings. This was at the entrance, 2km from where the explosion happened. Miners were about 200m from the explosion.

http://www.3news.co.nz/First-video-of-mine-explosion-emerges/tabid/309/articleID/187633/Default.aspx

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NonprayingMantis

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#408898 24-Nov-2010 13:49

I saw one article a few days ago that said that the batteries on the helmet lights would run out after some short amount of time like a few hours, so unless the miners were careful and used only one at a time they would have been in the pitch dark for several days.

Yet this morning they say they found a helmet with the light still on.

It seems to me that the only way this could have happened was:

Either the battery in that helmet had some crazy amount of life and was able to stay on for 5 days,
or
One of the miners had been alive and turned it on within the last few hours.

Finding the helmet on, yet not making contact with the miners seems a little odd, so I can only assume that whoever said the batteries had a life of a few hours was talking out of his bottom.

langers1972

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#408906 24-Nov-2010 13:54

NonprayingMantis:

It seems to me that the only way this could have happened was:

Either the battery in that helmet had some crazy amount of life and was able to stay on for 5 days,
or
One of the miners had been alive and turned it on within the last few hours.

Seems to be the first one:

Pike River CEO Peter Whittall said the discovery of the hat belonging to miner Russell Smith - who escaped the blast - could be good news as it meant those trapped could still have light after four days.

"If they've been using their lights sparingly may have light with them through all this time," he said.

NonprayingMantis

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#408915 24-Nov-2010 14:21

langers1972:
NonprayingMantis:

It seems to me that the only way this could have happened was:

Either the battery in that helmet had some crazy amount of life and was able to stay on for 5 days,
or
One of the miners had been alive and turned it on within the last few hours.

Seems to be the first one:

Pike River CEO Peter Whittall said the discovery of the hat belonging to miner Russell Smith - who escaped the blast - could be good news as it meant those trapped could still have light after four days.

"If they've been using their lights sparingly may have light with them through all this time," he said.

don't you think it;s wierd that he said this:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10689437
"He (Mr Whittall) said the miners' cap lamps, if they had been using them all the time, would be flat by now. They only have a 24-hour battery life." though.

If we make the assumption that this helmet has not been touched since the explosion, then it must have been on for 5 days - that;s a hugely different amount from the 24 hours he said before.

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#408982 24-Nov-2010 16:12

If another miner (stuck inside) had turned it on, why wouldn't they just walk out?

NonprayingMantis

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#408989 24-Nov-2010 16:19

leaplae: If another miner (stuck inside) had turned it on, why wouldn't they just walk out?

that;s why it is so weird. If that didn't happen then the battery has lasted 5 times longer than it possibly could.

vinnieg

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#409022 24-Nov-2010 17:04

Second blast has just occurred!!!!, no survivors expected at all now....and just image if rescuers had been involved. Thank Goodness there was only a robot in there(edit: whoops and the miners, but they had already been killed by high gas levels according to police)

I have moved across the ditch. Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer.

VinLew

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#409026 24-Nov-2010 17:23

@alronberg Please RT! 11am on Thursday 25th November is 10mins of Twitter Silence in honour of those lost at #pikeriver and their families.

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