Harvey Norman Warranty Hard Sell

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1490 posts

Uber Geek

#562728 29-Dec-2011 23:53

gzt: Consumer Guarantees Amendment Bill - First Reading

This is the same bill which fixed the lack of CGA if winning an auction rather than buy now.

The bill has not yet had a second reading let alone royal assent.

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James Sleeman
I sell lots of stuff for electronic enthusiasts...

mattwnz

20157 posts

Uber Geek

#562729 29-Dec-2011 23:58

sleemanj:
gzt: Consumer Guarantees Amendment Bill - First Reading

This is the same bill which fixed the lack of CGA if winning an auction rather than buy now.?

The bill has not yet had a second reading let alone royal assent.
?

Some things move very slowly in NZ. The sooner it is updated the better.

StarBlazer

961 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#562794 30-Dec-2011 09:40

Detruire:
alasta: Most big box retailers seem to be obstructive and slow to react when it comes to CGA claims. I'm not condoning it but it sounds like the salesperson was just stating the facts, albeit rather unprofessionally.

This is exactly what I thought when I read the OP. Whether intentionally or not, I think he merely told you the truth.

Well then he is telling us all two things - He didn't have any faith in Panasonic cameras to last and that "when" it went faulty they would be as difficult as possible. If those two things are correct - I won't buy from HN again - and that is what I said to the manager.

Procrastination eventually pays off.

StarBlazer

961 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#562802 30-Dec-2011 09:52

Loismustdye: Actually the only thing I would buy a warranty on is a mechanical warranty on a 2nd hand vehicle from a car yard, when repairs can easily number in the thousands for a vehicle that may cost only 10-12k it's a small piece of mind.

This is the only time I have purchased a warranty in the last decade! Arrived in NZ 5 years ago and bought a car. Did a deal with the yard cost me $500 on a $12,000 car - but I didn't know the quality of the cars/dealers/garages etc etc. In the end it was an MTA warranty and I claimed more than the $500 I paid. Would I do it again - probably. Buying a second hand car has more potential pitfalls and even with the CGA most of the issues would be "wear and tear" anyway.

Buying a new electronic device should not need an extended warranty. If the sales person had advised me that the warranty covered no more than the CGA but if I had a problem it would be sorted immediately and whatever other benefits it would have brought me - I would have been more inclined to consider one. If they have to perform a "hard sell" then it obviously is not worth what they are asking for it - products should sell themselves based on what they offer.

He very nearly lost the sale - if I didn't have my daughter with me (whom it is for) then I probably would have made more of a fuss (asked for the manager immediately) or walked away from the store and got one of the other retailers to price match.

Sales is about the experience - if the customer is not happy - they probably won't return. Not only that, but they will tell more people about a bad experience than a good experience - look at this thread 4 pages already and goodness knows how many reads. This is bad publicity for HN etc.

Procrastination eventually pays off.

alvin

207 posts

Master Geek

#562915 30-Dec-2011 15:29

I had this very similar experience with Harvey Norman Lower Hutt when I bought a D90 from them.

I was really disappointed as the sales guy was really pushing hard for the warranty. I declined and he even asked me why. I don't want to get on a debate and just said that i'm not interested. He then continued his spiel about the camera breaking down and that I can not come back to them as the manufacturer's warranty only covers a year. This is when I told him about the CGA and he still didnt stop arguing about the extended warranty. I was really close to cancelling the sale but I'm with my wife and she just told me to ignore the salesperson. In the end, I didn't get an extended warranty, I just want to get out of that store and didn't bother talking to the manager because it seems to me that they've "educated" their salespersons regarding what they call the "grey area" of CGA and that was what the sales guy was arguing about. I used to buy my stuff from Harvey Norman, but I've never set foot on that Lower Hutt store anymore after this.

old3eyes

9120 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#562922 30-Dec-2011 15:54

Over the past 20 years the only extended warranty I have purchased have been for the wife's laptops. (she insisted) Normally about 4~5 year warranty. With exception of the Toshiba that she bought about 3 years ago which has been fine, all the rest have had major and expensive problems after the first 2 years.. They were repaired no questions asked..

Regards,

Old3eyes

alasta

6704 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

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#562929 30-Dec-2011 16:30

alvin: I had this very similar experience with Harvey Norman Lower Hutt when I bought a D90 from them.

I was really disappointed as the sales guy was really pushing hard for the warranty.

This is why I buy all my camera gear from a camera store rather than a big box retailer. It doesn't cost much more, and it means that I can avoid the hard sell and misinformation. In fact whiteware is probably the only thing that I would buy from the likes of Harvey Norman.

The Nikon D90 is an extremely reliable and robust camera. Mine has been knocked around and had a bucket of water tossed at it yet it just keeps going and going.

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scottr

262 posts

Ultimate Geek

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#562935 30-Dec-2011 16:54

alasta:
alvin: I had this very similar experience with Harvey Norman Lower Hutt when I bought a D90 from them. ?

I was really disappointed as the sales guy was really pushing hard for the warranty. ? ?

This is why I buy all my camera gear from a camera store rather than a big box retailer. It doesn't cost much more, and it means that I can avoid the hard sell and misinformation. In fact whiteware is probably the only thing that I would buy from the likes of Harvey Norman.

The Nikon D90 is an extremely reliable and robust camera. Mine has been knocked around and had a bucket of water tossed at it yet it just keeps going and going.

You'll also find that some decidated camera stores can and will match prices seen elsewhere. I had a dedicated store match the cheapest non parallel-imported price I could find on pricespy. We also purchased a bag and they were even great enough to mention that the bag was on special in a bundle pack (although it wasn't advertised anywhere), and for 10 dollars less we could get the same bag, a 4 GB sd card and cloth as well. Brilliant.

Wes

3 posts

Wannabe Geek

#563113 31-Dec-2011 00:54

The way I avoid this type of hard sell on extended warranties is to now deal with the same salesperson I'm happy with when making an electronic/white ware purchase and research the best price available. They are from one of the bigger retailers and always match or better the deal unless they don’t have the product. Usually also get them to throw in an accessory like a cable to sweeten the deal. Have purchased a few items off them and now they don't even ask me if I want an extended warranty.

Recently I had to go to the Disputes Tribunal to get retailer to repair a faulty laptop and if I was more knowledgeable on my rights and came across this website earlier I could have avoided it but when the Operations Manager says to you that they will 'see you in court', you tend to take up the challenge. If you have patience and are prepared to learn about the process, you will be able to prevent retailers from frustrating you and avoiding their obligation under CGA.

LostBoyNZ

584 posts

Ultimate Geek

#563374 31-Dec-2011 23:37

As someone that works in retail too, I think "retailslave" (last post in page 2 of this topic) gives a great summary of it all.

And what he says about some customers not understanding the CGA is so true too! The number of people that have a cracked screen but refuse to believe they caused it... *grr!!* Likewise some people think the CGA entitles them to replacement cellphone rather than having it sent away, even though they get a loan phone, which is simply not true.

As for me, I simply offer the option of the extended warranty, and what the benefits are. And if the customer says no or such at any point, I say no worries. I don't like pushy sales people, and I won't be one myself.

I do personally recommend it on some products though, like iPods, some cellphones, portable DVD players if kids are gonna use them, and laptops. I've seen so many people benefit from having extended warranties on those.

Lastly if I had one message to customers, it's that they have no idea how little stores make from big items like TV's, laptops or iPads. Quite often a special on them is at or below cost price, but customers always want more off.

And since Sony just sold their TV department (not quite as simple as that, but yeah) after making losses for many years in a row, Acer didn't make any money from their PC's, and HP wanted to get out of the PC business... I wonder, when the manufacturers and the stores make nothing from a product, how long will it stay cheap for? I think prices of big items will rise in the future.

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mattwnz

20157 posts

Uber Geek

#563377 1-Jan-2012 00:37

LostBoyNZ: As someone that works in retail too, I think "retailslave" (last post in page 2 of this topic) gives a great summary of it all.

And what he says about some customers not understanding the CGA is so true too! The number of people that have a cracked screen but refuse to believe they caused it... *grr!!* Likewise some people think the CGA entitles them to replacement cellphone rather than having it sent away, even though they get a loan phone, which is simply not true.

As for me, I simply offer the option of the extended warranty, and what the benefits are. And if the customer says no or such at any point, I say no worries. I don't like pushy sales people, and I won't be one myself.

I do personally recommend it on some products though, like iPods, some cellphones, portable DVD players if kids are gonna use them, and laptops. I've seen so many people benefit from having extended warranties on those.

Lastly if I had one message to customers, it's that they have no idea how little stores make from big items like TV's, laptops or iPads. Quite often a special on them is at or below cost price, but customers always want more off.

And since Sony just sold their TV department (not quite as simple as that, but yeah) after making losses for many years in a row, Acer didn't make any money from their PC's, and HP wanted to get out of the PC business... I wonder, when the?manufacturers?and the stores make nothing from a product, how long will it stay cheap for? I think prices of big items will rise in the future.

Obviously it is not going to cover damage, such as a cracked screen, and I doubt any extended warranty would either. Insurance would likely cover that.
I wouldn't feel too sorry of these big TV companies. On paper they may make a loss, but that doesn't mean that their staff don't make lots of money. Many businesses structure things so they make a technical loss.
Also when retailer sells at a loss in order to match a competitor, don't they get a rebate back from the wholesaler/supplier to cover that loss. When a retailer has older stock, they often buy at a price, and then the wholesales drops their price, and another retailer may buy at that lower price which enables them to undercut the other retailer.

codyc1515

1598 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#563381 1-Jan-2012 00:56

When I was looking into purchasing a MacBook Air earlier in the year I initially had trouble finding a place that was going to have them on launch day. First off the guy gets me the wrong one (twice!), after about an hour or so of looking they finally get the correct one at the correct price but not before offering me an older one at a more expensive price than from the Apple Store... Anyway, so we get to the counter to finish everything off and he starts the E.W. talk. I outright say no, understanding my rights under the CGA and that Apple products (from my experience in the past) have proven to be very reliable. This talk continues on for a good 5-10 minutes about how the hard drive often break down in them (wrong, they don't have a hard drive), how they always come in to get repaired (saying that he is knowingly selling defective products) and that they (generally speaking) will not repair a computer under the CGA. It was at this point that I basically said "if you are knowingly going to sell me a defective product then why would I buy anything from you?". He quickly backtracked after that statement & I gave him "the look" :) It was like he wouldn't take no for an answer.

Needless to say I haven't been there in quite a few months and don't plan to either.

Wes

3 posts

Wannabe Geek

#563438 1-Jan-2012 11:13

LostBoyNZ: When it comes to retailing there are always lost leaders, Sony may be losing money on their TV division but they are sure not complaining about the billions they are making on gaming. These things go around in cycles and with new technology there is always opportunity to charge a premium and make super profits. Look at Apple sale of ipads.

mattwnz: You are correct around the technical losses they make which is usually after they allocated all their cost including marketing, salaries, rent etc but they will not be making any trading loss (direct cost plus freight).

Retailers don’t disclose how they allocate their overhead costs (marketing, salaries, rent etc) and more popular products lines may have more cost allocated. Therefore when retailers are selling stock below cost they are usually still recovering most of their overhead cost on older models that have higher cost.

Tongue in cheek, if the retail and cost prices have been falling, you will be doing the retailer a favour by buying the newer model to minimizing their losses.

b0untypure1

1426 posts

Uber Geek

#563561 1-Jan-2012 18:30

Hey guys, I'm also a salesperson and the rewards from selling extended warranties (in my opinion) are minimal and do not influence the way I sell them.

First of all, I let the customer know what it covers (full replacement, wear and tear, and not water/physical damage).

at this point if they say "No" I stop immediately and load the EFTPOS while bagging their items.

Otherwise, I let them know the normal prices (eg. $30 for 1 year and $60 for 2 years)
and if possible I will discount them so that the customer is getting a deal.

Personally $60 i would not pay for another 2 years, however $20/$30 would be taken into consideration.

My experience: Broken ipod classic from 4 years ago. I had the 4 years extended warranty which only cost $50 on the day. The warranty company paid out in vouchers, and with those i purchased a 32gb ipod touch with camera. The vouchers came in the mail the next day. Amazing service.

From the sales side: If a product is inside the extended warranty I am more than happy to call on behalf to get it sorted for them (a claim). However, without the extended warranty (1 yr manufacturers) the most I can do is leave a note for the service company, politely asking them to repair it for free. Out of the requests I have done, only one of them was approved (broken ipod touch screen was replaced for free! although physical damage was obvious). Otherwise service costs will be charged to the customer.

in terms of helping customers, the extended warranty does not alter the service you receive. I don't work at Harveys and I am shocked at how they can tell people "do not bother coming back". Where I work, most of the time we help people out, the product is not even from our store.

One time I helped a lady set up her cell phone, create a google account for andriod and so on. After activating the sim card and redeeming the top up voucher, I said "I didnt know we sold these phones"
she replied "no you dont, its from the warehouse".

In terms of the CGA, If the customer does not want the warranty, that's it. If they want the warranty, sell it. Don't be rude and say what is right and wrong.

JUST state the benefits, what it does, ask if they want it. Listen to their response. Just like sex, No means No. and Yes....well...you know!

System

521 posts

Ultimate Geek

#563564 1-Jan-2012 18:38

I agree completely bountypure. I see it all too often, some extended warranties give more benefits than the CGA, it is not meant to replace the CGA it is supposed to compliment or go above the CGA. Some things you can get with a extended warranty is things like a fast replacement on the item rather than a repair or with things like large TVs an extended warranty can give you a on-site repair option rather than having to take it back to the place of purchase.

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