GST on an imported second-hand camera? Say what!

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#1683297 6-Dec-2016 14:58

mdf:
MikeAqua:

What I find aggravating is the charge is a flat fee as opposed to some kind of percentage (perhaps subject to a minimum and a maximum). Somehow it seems disproportionate to charge the same fee on a $400, $4,000 and $40,000 package. It just encourages splitting shipments into multiple packages (particularly when you're around the $400 mark).

Flat fees sting when you are at the lower end of the range ... but they are very simple to apply.

Value doesn't seem to be good basis for determining a fair biosecurity levy.

The effort required to undertake a biosecurity inspection on something is determined by it's size, complexity and risk profile.

Value doesn't really come into it ... from an inspection effort point of view.

I understand where you're coming from, but I think there is some (though very approximate) correlation between value and inspection. Why should one box of X product have the same inspection charge as three boxes of the same product?

The full consultation document answers all the questions https://mpi.govt.nz/news-and-resources/consultations/proposed-revisions-to-the-cost-recovery-regimes-for-biosecurity-and-food-safety/

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#1683372 6-Dec-2016 17:02

Bung: 3 years wouldn't be an excuse as i think the IRD requires that sort of record be kept for 7. The gst on an old laptop might be less than the cost of retrieving the file from storage.

It was their personal laptop, so they didn't keep a receipt.

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#1683373 6-Dec-2016 17:05

Geektastic:

A couple of years ago my wife and I returned to the UK to visit family etc and she left her phone here by mistake. As we were away 6 weeks and she was expecting work calls etc she required it so we had the house sitters courier it to my mother.

Endless debate with UK Customs & Excise about it being liable for 20% VAT which they eventually accepted should not apply.

Oh dear. It's certainly not an easily resolved situation, especially if you factor in the opportunity cost of debating with the customs agency.

Glad she won out in the end though!

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#1683428 6-Dec-2016 19:31

sbiddle:

Geektastic:

sbiddle:

Geektastic:

Whilst I would expect to pay the fee I do think it is objectionable: we pay taxes to fund Customs and I consider this to be part of their normal work.

What next - a $100 fee for the IRD to print your tax demand letter?

That's not really comparing apples with apples.

Faced with major upgrades customs and the Government chose to pass these on as a user pays system rather than funding these through general taxation. I don't see any issue with importers who now benefit from these new systems contributing to these rather than taxpayers who don't use the service having to fund this.

So if, say, the department that pays benefits needs a new computer we can pass that on to benefit recipients and those of us who don't use the service won't have to fund it? Excellent!

You have a choice whether you want to import goods into NZ. Most would argue that (most) people don't go on a benefit by choice.

The new customs system meant significant cost reductions for many importers. You wouldn't find many who argue against the IETF.

Likewise the MPI fee is charged to people who import goods into the country to ensure biosecurity standards are kept at a high level. If you don't import goods you don't need to pay it.

Sort of - a huge percentage of what we consume is imported so we are really all consumers of Customs "services" in that respect.

Which bit of Customs do our taxes pay for then?

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#1683458 6-Dec-2016 20:24

Geektastic:

Sort of - a huge percentage of what we consume is imported so we are really all consumers of Customs "services" in that respect.

Which bit of Customs do our taxes pay for then?

I don't really have an answer for that, but I'm assuming you object to Customs moving towards cost recovery across all parts of the business? And that taxpayers should fund all Customs processing which includes passenger charges? If so why should taxpayers have to fund all passenger processing including international passengers rather than cost recovery from those who actually fly and use the services?

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#1683554 7-Dec-2016 00:32

sbiddle:

Geektastic:

Sort of - a huge percentage of what we consume is imported so we are really all consumers of Customs "services" in that respect.

Which bit of Customs do our taxes pay for then?

I don't really have an answer for that, but I'm assuming you object to Customs moving towards cost recovery across all parts of the business? And that taxpayers should fund all Customs processing which includes passenger charges? If so why should taxpayers have to fund all passenger processing including international passengers rather than cost recovery from those who actually fly and use the services?

We may as well extend the principle. Why should ACC have to bear the cost burden of accidents caused by other people?

Why should men have to pay taxes to fund the Ministry of Women?

Why should non-drivers have any of their tax used on the road system?

You just can't shift anything but real outliers to a user pays system UNLESS you reduce taxes as well - otherwise it's just a tax increase by another name.

Another oddity IMV is including shipping in the calculation - when almost none of it was in NZ at all.

I'd be interested to know whether the shipping cost is included in any duty calculations when you have an entire container of, say, American products sent to a retailer by his supplier in the USA. Do they divide the $3000 container shipping charge over the value of the cargo or not?

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#1683562 7-Dec-2016 05:25

Its only a tax increase if you buy stuff from overseas, that is a choice you make. you dont have to buy from overseas, you choose to to try and save a buck.

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#1683603 7-Dec-2016 08:57

Jase2985:

Its only a tax increase if you buy stuff from overseas, that is a choice you make. you dont have to buy from overseas, you choose to to try and save a buck.

Not really. More than 50% of what is in NZ shops comes from overseas.

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#1683614 7-Dec-2016 09:11

I don't often agree with Geektastic but this is one occasion when I do. I also got hit with GST on an import because the shipping cost put it over the top. Then I got hit a second time solely because I got hit the first time, a charge for being charged. What I see in most cases like this is that convenience rules. There tends to be a one size fits all approach aimed at collecting as much as possible for as little effort as possible. You also see that with our income tax. Most countries have a tax-free threshold. We don't. Tax is charged on tax. It is not about fairness or spreading the burden, just what is the easiest way to tack on some extra duty.

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#1683657 7-Dec-2016 09:48

Rikkitic:

I don't often agree with Geektastic but this is one occasion when I do. I also got hit with GST on an import because the shipping cost put it over the top. Then I got hit a second time solely because I got hit the first time, a charge for being charged. What I see in most cases like this is that convenience rules. There tends to be a one size fits all approach aimed at collecting as much as possible for as little effort as possible. You also see that with our income tax. Most countries have a tax-free threshold. We don't. Tax is charged on tax. It is not about fairness or spreading the burden, just what is the easiest way to tack on some extra duty.

Shipping is a service. GST is a goods and service tax, and the beauty of NZ's GST is that it's not full of loopholes and exceptions that make it a nightmare to enforce.

Most countries in the world have import duties. At the end of the day the de minimis value of $50 has been in place since 1996 with an increase to $60 with the GST increase. Ignorance of this is no excuse when importing goods especially when Customs have gone out of there way to make sites such as whatsmyduty that are so simple to understand. It's unfortunately that you got caught out but rules are rules.

I don't see why any imported goods should really be tax free but the de minimis value simplifies a system that would be incredibly complex otherwise if every import had to be processed.

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#1683661 7-Dec-2016 09:49

Geektastic:

Jase2985:

Its only a tax increase if you buy stuff from overseas, that is a choice you make. you dont have to buy from overseas, you choose to to try and save a buck.

Not really. More than 50% of what is in NZ shops comes from overseas.

And the point is? GST is still only charged once in a supply chain and likewise import fees are a reality of life.

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#1683711 7-Dec-2016 10:27

I actually don't have a problem with the GST. It is being charged for paying tax that annoys me (and that also pushes the total to an unreasonable amount on goods that just barely go over the limit). In my case this added about $100 to a $400 purchase. The total actually came to $405. If it had been $395 there would have been no charge at all. Something is wrong with this picture.

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#1683775 7-Dec-2016 11:23

It's not always about trying to save a few dollars, the bulk of my importing if getting something into the country that is a) never going to be sold here (made for the Japanese market) or b) not brought into the country because importers/distributors have made a decision to not bring it into the country.

While ~90% of my imports are under the customs limit, a few have been a) stopped (but not charged - slowing down the receiving of items) or b) charged
As soon as it is charged the I know the bill is going to be at least $120 because of the extra flat fees added to the GST bill.

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#1683790 7-Dec-2016 11:47

Rikkitic:

I actually don't have a problem with the GST. It is being charged for paying tax that annoys me (and that also pushes the total to an unreasonable amount on goods that just barely go over the limit). In my case this added about $100 to a $400 purchase. The total actually came to $405. If it had been $395 there would have been no charge at all. Something is wrong with this picture.

But this is how the de minimis system works. It would be no different if the figure was the current NZ$50, $100 or even $10. There would be people who get charged, and some who don't. I believe New Zealand's $50 de minimus limit sits comfortably between countries who charge for all imports, and countries like Australia who had a very generous $1000 limit that will now be reduced to $0

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#1683840 7-Dec-2016 13:01

Speaking of Customs (or is it NZ Post?), I sometimes buy small electronics devices from Aliexpress, like HDMI splitters, switches and audio extractors. I have a converter on the way at the moment. Customs must be used to seeing these items by the thousands and they must be able to tell at a glance that no GST is owing on them and they are too small to contain any drugs. Yet it amuses me when I check the trace that the item usually makes it from China to NZ in less than a week, then takes multiple weeks to reach my home. One wonders what they are doing with it. Sure, Customs has to take a perfunctory peek at it if they bother at all but weeks?

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