Tipping? Please no!

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#1786825 23-May-2017 15:12

BlueShift:

I'd be interested to hear from any employers, especially hospo types like @nate on their views.

As an employer, I'd love tipping. If I took out the wages component of my overheads and just paid my staff a bare minimum (I'm sure in some states in the US, it's $2.50/hour) I'd happily pocket the extra profit.

Would I want it here? Not really.

If I want good staff, I have to pay them well and create an environment that they want to work in. We have a tipping jar (which I have detested since the beginning) and once a week all the staff split them. It's normally a nominal amount, but they're pretty happy with it.

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#1786829 23-May-2017 15:15

BlueShift:
Wiggum:

jonathan18:

Wiggum:

Some students are exceptionally cheap already. My oldest girl, 13, does a paper run. She does not make much money, and what she gets is far less than the minimum wage per hour. Some may say that those companies are abusing the system. I look at it another way, its teaching my daughter the value of money, and how to work for it. Should these companies be forced into paying the minimum wage for "these kind of jobs" then "these kind of jobs" will go away.

I'll certainly not be encouraging my kids, when they get to that age, to take on such jobs. To me that's not teaching my kids the value of money, but rather teaching them it's ok to be screwed by The Man. Better that they put that time into something more valuable and rewarding in other ways.

I'd suggest this seems to be an ever-increasing view amongst parents (or indeed kids) as paper and flyer distribution companies become tighter and tighter in what they pay (or increase the amount of work for the same pay), as nearly every single person I see delivering leaflets or the local freebie papers is an adult, I'd imagine in many cases aiming to supplement their benefit. While it'll be unfortunate if these guys lost their job, in principle I'd have no problem with such companies being forced to pay the minimum wage.

Well they are already forced to pay the minimum wage. The law states that there is no minimum wage for employees under the age of 16. Those adults will probably already be getting minimum wage.

I see nothing wrong with the way it is for paper runs etc.. It gets my daughter out of the house once a week, and she is learning how to save and earn an honest living one day. So what if an adult doing the same job gets paid a little more.

I don't know what deal your daughter is on, but good on her for earning some spending money.

My son signed up as a circular deliverer, if anything he was being paid significantly more than the adults doing the same job. Under 16s aren't required to pay tax, so the government didn't get 19% of his income, his mum and dad picked up the papers and brought them home, saving him the petrol and vehicle expenses that an adult doing the job would have.

All of the people doing the deliveries are employed as contractors, so they don't get paid a minimum wage, regardless of age, they get paid $x for delivering y kilos of pamphlets to their designated area.

For him it worked out to be in the range of $4 an hour, including folding and stacking the circulars, then delivering them to the neighbourhood. Not including my time and fuel collecting them from the agent, and assisting with the folding and delivering. So after a month or two, we encouraged him to give it away as he could make a better hourly rate doing pretty much anything else.

I think the only people who that job is realistically good for is retired or unemployed people who need an excuse to go for a walk.

Where does it say people under 16 don't have to pay tax? According to the IRD, if they earn over about 2340 a year, they are required to fill in an income tax return.

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#1786830 23-May-2017 15:15

Absolutely NO. Mandatory (or even obligatory) tipping is surely a symptom of a broken system/economy.

Tipping should be done only as an occasional special gesture if you absolutely feel like it.

From a quick skim I couldn't see anyone in this thread support mandatory or obligatory tipping?

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#1786833 23-May-2017 15:18

nate:
BlueShift:

I'd be interested to hear from any employers, especially hospo types like @nate on their views.

As an employer, I'd love tipping. If I took out the wages component of my overheads and just paid my staff a bare minimum (I'm sure in some states in the US, it's $2.50/hour) I'd happily pocket the extra profit.

Would I want it here? Not really.

If I want good staff, I have to pay them well and create an environment that they want to work in. We have a tipping jar (which I have detested since the beginning) and once a week all the staff split them. It's normally a nominal amount, but they're pretty happy with it.

I guess tipping does give the staff an incentive to provide good service. Although if it is pooled, it probably is less incentive. But imo I am not sure if customer service is any better with our without tipping, as it depends on the staff me,bees personality. We certainly don't want to become anymore like the USA. We are becoming more similar by the day.

Stu

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#1786841 23-May-2017 15:23

Keeping their job should be the incentive to provide good service.

People often mistake me for an adult because of my age.

Keep calm, and carry on posting.

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allio

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#1786846 23-May-2017 15:23

Please, no.

I love travelling in the US but it is always such a relief to get home and not have to worry or think about tipping. It adds uncertainty, stress and confusion to every retail interaction. A straight 20% tip for a meal is easy enough (though still requires a damn calculator and a bulging wallet full of singles, and gets very problematic if you're splitting the bill), but is entirely redundant. Once it becomes "expected" (and it absolutely is in the US), why pretend it's a choice? Just build fair compensation for the employee into the cost of the good, like every other industry does.

More problematic are those borderline interactions, like the guy at the hotel who spends five seconds pulling your bag out of the car boot, or the taxi driver, or the hairdresser. Do I tip them too? If so how much? If not why not? Am I going to look like a cheap prick if I don't?

I will never tip in NZ because I consider it a virus which, once established, will be nearly impossible to stamp out.

All that aside I just find the whole concept really distasteful - it offends my egalitarian sensibilities. It makes me feel like some kind of feudal lord throwing pennies to one of my serfs. I think some people actually like that, and particularly like the opportunity to look gregarious and generous in front of others. Yuck. Save your "generosity" for a charity, not the guy who brought you your steak. Or more likely, the good looking white girl who brought you your steak. There's a whole other problem...

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BlueShift

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#1786856 23-May-2017 15:33

mattwnz:
BlueShift:

I don't know what deal your daughter is on, but good on her for earning some spending money.My son signed up as a circular deliverer, if anything he was being paid significantly more than the adults doing the same job. Under 16s aren't required to pay tax, so the government didn't get 19% of his income, his mum and dad picked up the papers and brought them home, saving him the petrol and vehicle expenses that an adult doing the job would have.All of the people doing the deliveries are employed as contractors, so they don't get paid a minimum wage, regardless of age, they get paid $x for delivering y kilos of pamphlets to their designated area.For him it worked out to be in the range of $4 an hour, including folding and stacking the circulars, then delivering them to the neighbourhood. Not including my time and fuel collecting them from the agent, and assisting with the folding and delivering. So after a month or two, we encouraged him to give it away as he could make a better hourly rate doing pretty much anything else.I think the only people who that job is realistically good for is retired or unemployed people who need an excuse to go for a walk.

Where does it say people under 16 don't have to pay tax? According to the IRD, if they earn over about 2340 a year, they are required to fill in an income tax return.

Yes, there is a dollar limit as well as an age one: IRD official page. Not much danger of a kid delivering circulars making that much though...

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#1786860 23-May-2017 15:35

Stu: Keeping their job should be the incentive to provide good service.

No! No-one should ever be grateful for "keeping their job". Your employer is using your labour to make profit, not providing a social service. You should incentivised by rewards, not the threat of the dole.

You'll want people tugging their forelock next.

Stu

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#1786867 23-May-2017 15:41

Not all businesses make a fortune out of their staff. Why should an underperforming employee be entitled to cruise along when others work hard?

People often mistake me for an adult because of my age.

Keep calm, and carry on posting.

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dafman

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#1786871 23-May-2017 15:51

I think this discussion has reached tipping point

frankv

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#1786872 23-May-2017 15:53

Stu: Not all businesses make a fortune out of their staff. Why should an underperforming employee be entitled to cruise along when others work hard?

Where did that come from?

No-one said anything about making a fortune. So far, no-one has even mentioned underperforming. Of course everyone should be getting a reasonable reward for the actual effort they put in.

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mattwnz

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#1786880 23-May-2017 16:05

Stu: Not all businesses make a fortune out of their staff. Why should an underperforming employee be entitled to cruise along when others work hard?

Generally that comes down to performance and pay. Staff can get paid bonuses if there perform well. Or they will be promoted. Tipping though really has no relation to performance, as usually it is a set percentage. Plus there is nothing stopping people being tipped now, if they are providing really good service.

SepticSceptic

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#1786882 23-May-2017 16:06

In the good Ol USA, I don't tip, except for meals. But generally nothing else.

Got the occasional funny look, but I just smile and wave and say I'm from New Zeelund. That confuses them, and I usually get away with it :-)

Will tip here in NZ on occasion, where I think service has been very good, but that's few and far between.

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#1786883 23-May-2017 16:14

dafman:

I think this discussion has reached tipping point

We're only seeing the tip of the iceberg

nate

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#1786891 23-May-2017 16:24

I'll add a few more thoughts... One of my newest staff members is from the USA, and had a discussion at length with her about tipping. She was not a fan.

She preferred the stability of having a regular, set income. She mentioned one time she worked 8 hours and made $6. Another time, she served a couple, who didn't tip her just because the girlfriend didn't appreciate her boyfriend ogling the server (my staff member) so wrote this on the receipt. Not at all my staff member's fault, but some people can be dicks.

From my own personal experience, I head across to the USA twice a year and hate tipping. It's nice to come home and not have to do it.

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