Commerce Commission Report on Grocery Sector

Forums › Off topic › Commerce Commission Report on Grocery Sector

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | ... | 11

11294 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2752617 30-Jul-2021 18:16

MikeB4:
Comparing Aotearoa to the likes of Denmark is not a fair comparison. Population is only one metric there are many more that need to be compared. Any comparisons must take into account, Incomes, income spread, population density and spread, ethnic spread, transport both internally and import, utilities, tax, dietary requirements and many many more.

Ireland might be a closer-to-NZ demographic country to compare against.

They have 11 supermarket chains.

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#2752623 30-Jul-2021 18:41

tdgeek:

sbiddle:

Woolworths NZ has a single CEO (since they're 100% owned by Woolworths Australia).

Foodstuffs are two different companies with two different CEO's and because they're a co-operative they're basically controlled by the hundreds of owner operators and board of directors made up of those store owners.

Foodstuffs South Island and North Island are two totally different companies that actually don't actually share a lot in common between them.

Thanks, so its really 3 not 2. Owner operators I doubt have any control of the franchises though

Owner operators have a huge amount of control over their store. They are the ones running it - and the reason why the experience differs so much between Foodstuffs stores.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2752625 30-Jul-2021 18:43

stagnant16:

That would assume he had any credibility to start with - he's miles out of the ballpark, and to insinuate either myself, or any of my colleagues bully suppliers is but laughable.
He deserved a short retort for such a ludicrous statement without factual proof.

Does that clear it up for you 🙃

Who are you talking about? Networkn or Fred? Serious query not bitchiness

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2752627 30-Jul-2021 18:45

neb:
tdgeek:

Seems rather draconian to force a business to reduce its size,

That's exactly what happened with AT&T. There's both precedent and a good case study on how to do it.

Absolutely fair comment. Same with Telecom and Chorus. The fine line between business and abuse is tight.

stagnant16

206 posts

Master Geek

#2752629 30-Jul-2021 18:51

Owner operators have a huge amount of control over their store. They are the ones running it - and the reason why the experience differs so much between Foodstuffs stores.

Not really.

stagnant16

206 posts

Master Geek

#2752631 30-Jul-2021 18:53

Who are you talking about? Networkn or Fred? Serious query not bitchiness

Fred.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2752637 30-Jul-2021 19:04

sbiddle:

Owner operators have a huge amount of control over their store. They are the ones running it - and the reason why the experience differs so much between Foodstuffs stores.

Can they buy veggies from wherever they like, such as tomatoes may be from a local market garden or pumpkins form this place up north, etc. Or do they need to be part of the deal between some growers somewhere that supply that franchise, and get transported to each franchisee. Can they buy Pams baked beans or Watties or Heinz if they choose? That type of thing.

Appreciate the insights from you

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2752639 30-Jul-2021 19:20

stagnant16:

Who are you talking about? Networkn or Fred? Serious query not bitchiness

Fred.

Fred isn't silly. Ive re read his post, its not out there and its not dissimilar to other experiences Ive read. Franchisees have to struggle to get space they have to pay for it. An apple grower on TV last night repeated the same stuff. I had to travel to North Queensland a few years back twice in 3 weeks as my Dad was dying. Went to a supermarket in Mirani, a tinpot town, 2 minutes drive through the "town", in sugar cane country, the supermarket was huge. Fred had experience, is what he was saying a stitch up? Or are todays supermarkets in NZ a sweet business if you are a franchisee? I once worked with a colleague, this was years ago, had a supey in Blenheim. he went broke. When weekly turnover exceeded budget he got cream, when it didn't he lost money. He worked with the franchiser, no support, broke. Anecdotal, yes, but it asks the question. And we see the same issues today

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#2752641 30-Jul-2021 19:32

stagnant16:

Who are you talking about? Networkn or Fred? Serious query not bitchiness

Fred.

Me?

I love it when people claim that others don't know what they're talking about - apparently only because it conflicts with either their world-view, or they have "skin in the game" and feel threatened.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2752642 30-Jul-2021 19:36

Fred99:

Me?

I love it when people claim that others don't know what they're talking about - apparently only because it conflicts with either their world-view, or they have "skin in the game" and feel threatened.

While Im not discounting his input all I've seen are a brief rebuttal or a longer rebuttal.

I want to see "I've been around long enough to understand how the industry operates" more detail on this.

Kyanar

4089 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#2752644 30-Jul-2021 19:38

CruciasNZ:

I saw an article the other day saying Aldi wasn't going to setup shop here because costs to establish would be too high. HOWEVER, if the CC makes existing players sell "feature complete" existing stores (like how Z were forced to sell service stations, they just repainted them) then that would eliminate that constraint.

Not likely. Aldi doesn't operate stores in that form factor (they're typically smaller, not like Four Square small - maybe about half the size of Countdown Pt Chevalier). Kaufland though - they're a player that operates mega-scale supermarkets with low prices! Only downside is that they've already tried and given up expanding to APAC, they closed in Australia, laid off all their staff, and sold all their distribution centres without ever getting to open a single retail store.

stagnant16

206 posts

Master Geek

#2752645 30-Jul-2021 19:42

Fred.

Me?

I love it when people claim that others don't know what they're talking about - apparently only because it conflicts with either their world-view, or they have "skin in the game" and feel threatened.

Good for you!

Lets recap, you've made wild assertions with no evidence to back it up.
You've accused me of being a dishonest bully, and now you talk in riddles.

Give me something concrete and I'll have an honest discussion with you.

Until then...

Edit - Spelling

spaceknight

39 posts

Geek

#2752646 30-Jul-2021 19:57

There are two Countdowns in Westgate, just a few hundred meters away from each other. I have no doubt they grabbed the one in the new mall (Northwest) to block competitors. Fortunately New World opened not too long ago in Hobsonville. I do most of my shopping there now, even though it's few minutes drive more (not because of the price though, it's not any cheaper than Countdown, but because prefer the product range there).

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#2752647 30-Jul-2021 19:57

stagnant16:
Your accused me of being a dishonest bully, and now you talk in riddles.

Take two deep breaths - go back and re-read what I've posted, find the place where I "accused you of being a dishonest bully".

Then consider that one of the FUG is simply "don't be a dick" and think about what you've said above.

Bonus points if you can find where I've called any person a "dishonest bully". Plenty of "robust" discussion - sure. But I have respect for the other members here - even those with whom I seldom agree.

antonknee

1133 posts

Uber Geek

#2752649 30-Jul-2021 20:08

It's obvious we have a problem with our supermarket duopoly. We pay above the odds for groceries, and both our supermarket chains would appear to be making outsize profits. Acknowledging that grocery is a low margin high volume game is great, and their NPAT does indeed prove that, however that NPAT (see graph from @sbiddle) is double the benchmark for grocery - so yes, outsize profit.

We are an island country at the ass end of the world, so you naturally expect some increased costs. However, we have 5 million in population are 87% of us live in urban areas, which is quite high. So the arguments of small population, low density don't really stack up IMO. Plus we produce a bunch of food here - which won't have import costs - although you could argue all day about needing to pay export prices domestically.

It's interesting to have a FSNI category manager in the thread. I would challenge them however on their claim FSNI don't bully suppliers - if that's the case, then why did an overwhelming proportion of suppliers basically say that in the survey? Why do these suppliers now consistently rank their relationship with FSNI as the worst of the three? Is this a case of where there's smoke, there's fire?

Clearly grocery is not a healthy, competitive market, and has not been for a long time. Progressive should probably never have been allowed to acquire WWNZ, but WWNZ was not a very healthy business at the time and Foodstuffs were more than twice the size of Progressive and WWNZ - so who knows how things would have gone had that acquisition not occurred.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | ... | 11