mudguard: I mean that's a bit over blown. I just drove from Army Bay to Wairau in 37 minutes. At 10am.
Now try it at a peak time like 5pm or 7am, when it can take that long to get from the motorway exit to the Whangaparaoa Road turnoff...
But that's kind of the whole point of this thread. Do you build roads to suit a two hour window each day? Or spend billions bypassing the Brynderwyns for how much traffic exactly? Yes roads are nice to have and Penlink has been promised for twenty years, but Millwater etc is it's own problem.
mudguard: Or spend billions bypassing the Brynderwyns for how much traffic exactly?
its not about how much traffic. Brynderwyns doesn't have huge amounts of traffic. its all about having a road in the first place. northland has a very real danger of being cutoff from the rest of nz.
the bypass roads are not suitable for the type and amount of traffic. this is why i suggest they push through a new bypass road, even if its just gravel. anything thats suitable for the type and amount of traffic. then at least northland won't be cutoff when the hill fail yet again.
mudguard: But that's kind of the whole point of this thread. Do you build roads to suit a two hour window each day? Or spend billions bypassing the Brynderwyns for how much traffic exactly? Yes roads are nice to have and Penlink has been promised for twenty years, but Millwater etc is it's own problem.
It's not solely about having a faster, higher capacity road to Northland. It's about having a road that is available.
I remember much wailing and gnashing of teeth about how Wellington could not depend on only SH2 over Remutakas if SH1 was shut down - that 'awful alternative' stretch of SH2 is comparable to the nicer parts of the Brynderwyns.
Just imagine if all traffic north out of Wellington had to go over Akatarawa Rd, which resembles parts of the main bypass to the Brynderwyns, and where a truck got stuck on a tight bend and had to be removed with a crane.
mudguard: But that's kind of the whole point of this thread. Do you build roads to suit a two hour window each day?
Which is pretty much what a motorway is...
Again that's the fundamental question, do you need a motorway for essentially Red Beach onwards? I wonder if an unintentional consequence will be Orewa and Millwater residents doubling back from Penlink instead. Who knows. Worry about it when it's finished. Sorry about the thread jack. I vaguely recall a Penlink thread somewhere.
mudguard: But that's kind of the whole point of this thread. Do you build roads to suit a two hour window each day? Or spend billions bypassing the Brynderwyns for how much traffic exactly? Yes roads are nice to have and Penlink has been promised for twenty years, but Millwater etc is it's own problem.
It's not solely about having a faster, higher capacity road to Northland. It's about having a road that is available.
I remember much wailing and gnashing of teeth about how Wellington could not depend on only SH2 over Remutakas if SH1 was shut down - that 'awful alternative' stretch of SH2 is comparable to the nicer parts of the Brynderwyns.
Just imagine if all traffic north out of Wellington had to go over Akatarawa Rd, which resembles parts of the main bypass to the Brynderwyns, and where a truck got stuck on a tight bend and had to be removed with a crane.
True but there is a way around. I know, I drive it every month. Via Dargaville. Does add an hour though.
True but there is a way around. I know, I drive it every month. Via Dargaville. Does add an hour though.
or two. especially if your destination is the port.
how many repairs are they still doing out that way?
To be perfectly honest I don't notice. I'll let you know next week. The major road works I notice are between Napier and Gisborne as there are a couple of long stop go lights. So anything else almost seems trivial. I think they're adding an hour if you time it wrong.
Many of these answers illustrate why we don't spend the money we should on good roads.
No, motorways aren't for 2-hour rush hours. They're not for rich people's convenience... They are for guaranteed movement of goods and people, with wonderfully low fatality & injury rates.
In the '50s and '60s, when the rest of the world was building motorways, NZ had the highest GDP. Money wasn't the problem then - and we're still a wealthy country. But we adopted this silly mantra of 'traffic flows only warrant this size road'. Instead of building to facilitate development, we built (and still build) to ease existing congestion.
We did it for the harbour bridge in 1959 and we're still doing it... always behind the curve and always adding half a lane for half a kilometre - while slowing movement to a crawl.
mudguard: But that's kind of the whole point of this thread. Do you build roads to suit a two hour window each day?
Again that's the fundamental question, do you need a motorway for essentially Red Beach onwards? I wonder if an unintentional consequence will be Orewa and Millwater residents doubling back from Penlink instead.
Well clearly you've not driven north during holiday periods and experienced the traffic heading to Mangawhai, Matakana, Te Arai, Langs or Waipu Cove.
Over New Year Northern Bass alone draws 20,000 attendees including 10,000 campers, many of whom stay in Mangawhai.
And just about every second house in Mangawhai is a holiday home owned by wealthy Auckland residents, on top of this you've got commuters like my brother in law and sister who both live in Mangawhai but commute to the North shore, which takes around an hour of stress free driving.
It used to take me an hour to get to work when I lived in Auckland.
Then you've got freight transported from Auckland to Whangerai, which is the main distribution centre for Northland.
That's kind of the point. The commute has always been bad, and I've been up there twenty years. Penlink won't make that much better even with multiple lanes. The point is you shouldn'tmove there if you have any kind of commute or if you do, that's what you're going to get. It's like a comment about the Brynderwyns and more people commuting to Auckland, I mean that's a terrible justification for improving it. That's not a commute, that's another job.
I have friends who moved to the Peninsula because it was the only place in Auckland they could afford to buy. People live where they can afford these days. Yes, ideally we'd live close to where we work but not everyone can live in the inner-city suburbs.
Just saying "It's always been hard to commute from here so let's ignore the growing population, infill housing and gaslight people into accepting longer and longer commutes" isn't really a smart way to go about urban planning. I mean the smart way is to make it cheaper and more affordable to buy closer to employment centres i nthe first place but that sounds like hard work so we're clearly not going to do that.
mudguard: But that's kind of the whole point of this thread. Do you build roads to suit a two hour window each day?
Again that's the fundamental question, do you need a motorway for essentially Red Beach onwards? I wonder if an unintentional consequence will be Orewa and Millwater residents doubling back from Penlink instead.
Well clearly you've not driven north during holiday periods and experienced the traffic heading to Mangawhai, Matakana, Te Arai, Langs or Waipu Cove.
Over New Year Northern Bass alone draws 20,000 attendees including 10,000 campers, many of whom stay in Mangawhai.
And just about every second house in Mangawhai is a holiday home owned by wealthy Auckland residents, on top of this you've got commuters like my brother in law and sister who both live in Mangawhai but commute to the North shore, which takes around an hour of stress free driving.
It used to take me an hour to get to work when I lived in Auckland.
Then you've got freight transported from Auckland to Whangerai, which is the main distribution centre for Northland.
T
Sorry my Red Beach comment was in regards to Penlink not being four lanes. Not the northern motorway in general.
I travel domestically for work so go out of my way to not to be on the roads for public holidays. Mangawhai to North Shore is a pretty big committment. That's 90kms each way, or Hampton Downs to the CBD each day. I hope they're getting paid big bucks! That's half a weeks work extra and using my car as an example which costs about 26c per km to run (excluding purchase cost) so that's an extra 11K against a 60 hour work week.
I have friends who moved to the Peninsula because it was the only place in Auckland they could afford to buy. People live where they can afford these days. Yes, ideally we'd live close to where we work but not everyone can live in the inner-city suburbs.
Just saying "It's always been hard to commute from here so let's ignore the growing population"
I agree, housing has been/is cheaper there. However I get tired of nimbyism, oh it's too full, no more development etc up that way. Reports done on Penlink showed the traffic movements didn't justify multiple lanes even with future populations. Combine that with WFH and there may be fewer commuters. I don't know. I have friends who bought recently and complain about the commute and I just shrug my shoulders. Penlink will help an aspect of it, but as I mentioned before, I wonder if there will be some unintended consequences, IE Orewa/Red Beach commuters suddenly coming down the Peninsula to get onto Penlink instead of Silverdale in the morning etc.
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