29 Miners Stuck in West Coast

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#409027 24-Nov-2010 17:24

Will be a very dark mark in New Zealand history
RIP

vinnieg

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#409032 24-Nov-2010 17:29

DjShadow: Will be a very dark mark in New Zealand history
RIP

Agreed, very tragic ending to a sad saga. I just hope the Media now get out of Greymouth and let the families get on with their grieving. Especially any journalists from "The Australian" who seem to have no sympathy whatsoever...RIP

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Damager

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#409033 24-Nov-2010 17:31

They took too long I believe. I understand they didnt want to rush in before checking that everything was fine to enter.. Rushing is 1 day, they fiddled for 5 days and now there's no chance of survival.

There was a decent chance that this could have ended with a much better result. I feel for the families!

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magu

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#409040 24-Nov-2010 17:48

Damager: They took too long I believe. I understand they didnt want to rush in before checking that everything was fine to enter.. Rushing is 1 day, they fiddled for 5 days and now there's no chance of survival.

There was a decent chance that this could have ended with a much better result. I feel for the families!

Or, instead of 29 grieving families, we'd have 40+. It's hard to tell without all the info coming to light.

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sleemanj

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#409044 24-Nov-2010 17:56

Damager: They took too long I believe. I understand they didnt want to rush in before checking that everything was fine to enter.. Rushing is 1 day, they fiddled for 5 days and now there's no chance of survival.

There was a decent chance that this could have ended with a much better result. I feel for the families!

You don't send people into a situation which is totally unknown especially where there is little chance of it being a "rescue" anyway.

Unfortunately the situation proved to be too risky to put further people into, whether that was because the mine was just too dangerous from the first blast onwards, or because the time it took to properly assess the situation meant that the mine had by then become too dangerous, doesn't matter, an assessment HAD to be carried out before any body entered.

Imagine a rescue aircraft pilot saying "no time for our preflights, weather reports, or checklists, I'm sure everything will be fine, jump in and go!", not going to happen, no matter who is in charge.

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nakedmolerat

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#409045 24-Nov-2010 17:59

according to this video, everyone is aware that the safest time to go into the mine is right after the explosion! so why wait for 5 days?? they should have gone right away after the first blast!

michaelmurfy

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#409049 24-Nov-2010 18:05

I knew 2 guys down there in the mine. Depressing news.

I vote Geekzone does what Twitter is doing, 11am on Thursday 25th November is 10mins of Geekzone Silence in honour of those lost at Pike River.

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Damager

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#409054 24-Nov-2010 18:15

Interesting that Energy Minister Gerry Brownlee said that the second explosion "vindicated" the decision to delay the rescue.

The second explosion confirms that this situation was dangerous all along, we all knew that, however it doesnt mean that it automatically discounts that there was a chance a team could have possibly have gone in earlier. Quite concerning that this statement has already been made by the Minister.

I agree that the situation needed to be clearly examined before mounting the rescue operation. The families were told by the Police, rescue team etc that there was a window of opportunity on Friday where they could have sent a team in.

Tough call to make, but it appears that it had to be made under the circumstances. Hard either way!

VinLew

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#409059 24-Nov-2010 18:21

michaelmurfy: I knew 2 guys down there in the mine. Depressing news.

I vote Geekzone does what Twitter is doing, 11am on Thursday 25th November is 10mins of Geekzone Silence in honour of those lost at Pike River.

sleemanj

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#409062 24-Nov-2010 18:31

nakedmolerat: they should have gone right away after the first blast!

Without knowing what awaited them? That would have been brave. Foolish, but brave.

Just because there was an explosion doesn't mean that:
1. there isn't still combustion going on in the mine, that opening a door isn't going to produce an immense flame front right at you
2. the stability of the mine hasn't been compromised
3. the atmosphere in the mine isn't toxic, it's a long way to hike with your own breathing equipment AND enough for the victims who you want to bring out, and you can't use vehicles.

There are large amounts of methane leeching out, combine with the lack of a ventilation system owing to it being destroyed.

The bore today showed 95% methane concentration. I read that as ninety five percent of the atmosphere in the part of the mine where the bore was taken, was methane. That gives you an idea of how much gas we are talking about here. Also, methane is lighter than air and the bore was I believe at a low part of the mine. If it's 95% at a low part of the mine, and the people were further up...

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nakedmolerat

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#409069 24-Nov-2010 18:49

sleemanj:
nakedmolerat: they should have gone right away after the first blast!

Without knowing what awaited them? That would have been brave. Foolish, but brave.

Just because there was an explosion doesn't mean that:
1. there isn't still combustion going on in the mine, that opening a door isn't going to produce an immense flame front right at you
2. the stability of the mine hasn't been compromised
3. the atmosphere in the mine isn't toxic, it's a long way to hike with your own breathing equipment AND enough for the victims who you want to bring out, and you can't use vehicles.

There are large amounts of methane leeching out, combine with the lack of a ventilation system owing to it being destroyed.

The bore today showed 95% methane concentration. I read that as ninety five percent of the atmosphere in the part of the mine where the bore was taken, was methane. That gives you an idea of how much gas we are talking about here. Also, methane is lighter than air and the bore was I believe at a low part of the mine. If it's 95% at a low part of the mine, and the people were further up...

i suggest you re-read what you write. the bore TODAY showed 95% methance conc. of course it will be that high after 5 days of explosion. this is expected as the dangerous gas will re-accumulate. have you listen to this radio interview?

my understanding they are now sending the team for recovery, right? why now? what is the difference between today and last Friday? sure we send robots down there but afaik there was not much info gathered anyway. do we know more today than on Friday?

SpookyAwol

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#409070 24-Nov-2010 18:50

my understanding they are now sending the team for recovery, right?

No they arent - the same conditions still exist. They nearly made a decision to send a team in prior to the explosion - thankfully they did not.

old3eyes

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#409073 24-Nov-2010 18:51

nakedmolerat:
sleemanj:
nakedmolerat: they should have gone right away after the first blast!

Without knowing what awaited them? That would have been brave. Foolish, but brave.

Just because there was an explosion doesn't mean that:
1. there isn't still combustion going on in the mine, that opening a door isn't going to produce an immense flame front right at you
2. the stability of the mine hasn't been compromised
3. the atmosphere in the mine isn't toxic, it's a long way to hike with your own breathing equipment AND enough for the victims who you want to bring out, and you can't use vehicles.

There are large amounts of methane leeching out, combine with the lack of a ventilation system owing to it being destroyed.

The bore today showed 95% methane concentration. I read that as ninety five percent of the atmosphere in the part of the mine where the bore was taken, was methane. That gives you an idea of how much gas we are talking about here. Also, methane is lighter than air and the bore was I believe at a low part of the mine. If it's 95% at a low part of the mine, and the people were further up...

i suggest you re-read what you write. the bore TODAY showed 95% methance conc. of course it will be that high after 5 days of explosion. this is expected as the dangerous gas will re-accumulate. have you listen to this radio interview?

my understanding they are now sending the team for recovery, right? why now? what is the difference between today and last Friday? sure we send robots down there but afaik there was not much info gathered anyway. do we know more today than on Friday?

I suspect that now after the explosion is the safest time. Minimal gas build up. This is what they should have done last Friday nite..

Regards,

Old3eyes

SpookyAwol

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#409077 24-Nov-2010 18:57

You still cant go rushing into an unstable environment because 'old timers say its the best time'
We dont want to send more men to their deaths on an untested theory.

The same goes last friday - where is the magical 'they should have gone in' Who are "they" ??
Do you just pluck a random bunch of hardy men and ask them to go into an unknown environment? There isnt a rescue team just sitting around waiting to react to an event, they have to be assembled, briefed and the risk assessed.

All of the experts have agreed that this was the best and only approach. Anything else is a disservice to those agencies who tried their best in what was ultimately a disaster that was going to end badly

Klipspringer

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#409081 24-Nov-2010 19:06

Damager: They took too long I believe. I understand they didnt want to rush in before checking that everything was fine to enter.. Rushing is 1 day, they fiddled for 5 days and now there's no chance of survival.

There was a decent chance that this could have ended with a much better result. I feel for the families!

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