Tournament Parking - $65 infringement notice

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#681623 5-Sep-2012 09:38

oxnsox: Is it really that clear?
Yes it appears thats what may have happened, but I read that the OP pushed the button get $8 displayed. Then inserted the card.
The transaction fee would only be added once you've elected your payment method, so if the OP was aware of the fee and had entered $8 then they'd have every expectation that the $8 figure printed on the ticket was the parking fee and a transaction charges would be added (or not).

What the OP should do is go back to the carpark and confirm how the system actually works, before proceeding. Maybe there is a certain ambiguity in the way the parking companies present this. They may be legally correct in notifying you of the fee and expecting you to add it. Knowing full well it's often missed and there's the odd $40-$65 in it for them. Would that surprise anyone??

But then maybe these companies figure we won't do that because it's human nature to bitch and moan and simply pay the fee rather than challenge their ambiguity

In my experience, that's not how these machines work, usually you put the card in first. But I agree with you, if it went down like you described then you could argue it. My guess however is it goes like this: Insert card, select parking (tap-tap-tap, 0.5 hour = $2.50, 1 hour = $5, 1.5 hours = $7.50, maximum time = $8), press OK, "CC has additional 50c trans fee", press OK, take ticket.

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#681627 5-Sep-2012 10:02

bazzer:
oxnsox: Is it really that clear?
Yes it appears thats what may have happened, but I read that the OP pushed the button get $8 displayed. Then inserted the card.
The transaction fee would only be added once you've elected your payment method, so if the OP was aware of the fee and had entered $8 then they'd have every expectation that the $8 figure printed on the ticket was the parking fee and a transaction charges would be added (or not).

What the OP should do is go back to the carpark and confirm how the system actually works, before proceeding. Maybe there is a certain ambiguity in the way the parking companies present this. They may be legally correct in notifying you of the fee and expecting you to add it. Knowing full well it's often missed and there's the odd $40-$65 in it for them. Would that surprise anyone??

But then maybe these companies figure we won't do that because it's human nature to bitch and moan and simply pay the fee rather than challenge their ambiguity

In my experience, that's not how these machines work, usually you put the card in first. But I agree with you, if it went down like you described then you could argue it. My guess however is it goes like this: Insert card, select parking (tap-tap-tap, 0.5 hour = $2.50, 1 hour = $5, 1.5 hours = $7.50, maximum time = $8), press OK, "CC has additional 50c trans fee", press OK, take ticket.

Yip - that's exactly how they work. I haven't see anywhere where the OP has indicated how long he was actually there for, but "reasonable costs" would cover charging the standard $2.50 per half hour so the "fine" isn't unreasonable.

Going back to the original issue however they are claiming the credit card fee wasn't paid. Clearly the ticket proves that this isn't correct, but if you're going to push the issue you do run the risk of being caught out if asked why you had exceed the time you had legally paid for. Making a simple error purchasing the ticket isn't necessarily a defense.

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#681632 5-Sep-2012 10:12

shreyas: I left between 9:30 and 10pm so no I was nowhere near the 12 hour limit.

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#681659 5-Sep-2012 10:49

insane: It's clearly unintentional so just send them a letter with a 50c coin attached. I honestly doubt they'll think anything more of it.

If they do still follow you and this does make it to fair-go / nzherald then it'll only add to them looking like a bunch of right pricks.

Also tell them any further communication needs to be done via your lawyer John Campbell @ TV3 ;)

this is an awesome idea!

fair go will get your fine wiped, but THIS ... ah this will get their company wiped!

i say speak to john campbell!

gzt

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#681667 5-Sep-2012 11:11

Several people here say the fee is selected (eg; $8) then the payment method is selected and the fee is added.

If the OP selected $8 and then credit card, and then the machine/software stuffed up and either did not add the 50c or decided to subtract the 50c from the fee already selected - then it is clear the OP is completely in the right and does not need to pay a cent more. That would need to be confirmed somehow.

Here's another way of looking at it. Large carparks I've used give a 10 minute 'grace period' added to the ticket expiry time to navigate to the exit. I may be recalling overseas experience here.. Out of interest, does anyone know what the practice is in NZ for particular companies? The 8 minutes mentioned earlier is within that period and it seems pointless chasing someone for it.

NonprayingMantis

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#681672 5-Sep-2012 11:20

gzt: Several people here say the fee is selected (eg; $8) then the payment method is selected and the fee is added.

that is incorrect,

If the OP selected $8 and then credit card, and then the machine/software stuffed up and either did not add the 50c or decided to subtract the 50c from the fee already selected - then it is clear the OP is completely in the right and does not need to pay a cent more. That would need to be confirmed somehow.

no, the OP made a mistake when entering the amount he wanted. this much is clear.

Tournament parking in their letter wrote incorrectly that he had not paid the 50c cc fee when actually he did pay the fee, but underpaiud for parking.

ajobbins

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#681704 5-Sep-2012 11:53

These private parking companies are the scum of the earth. But unfortunately the error seems to be made by the OP and as such he may have a legal liability here.

As some have pointed out, they are only allow to change him liquidated damages, but are also allowed to charge for fair and reasonable administration costs (Such as sending letters, banking monies, follow up correspondence etc.) and it would probably be hard to argue that $40 was unreasonable.

I would suggest paying it and learning not to do it again. I doubt they would bother sending $40 to the debt collectors, but it's probably not worth the risk.

What does seem unreasonable however is that they would actually bother even trying to chase you for a $0.50 under payment. This to me serves as proof that their $65 admin fee is in fact profitable to them. If they can cover costs for $40, then $65 is profiteering.

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#681707 5-Sep-2012 11:56

http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/for-consumers/services/carpark-fines-towing-and-clamping#unreasonable

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#681747 5-Sep-2012 12:42

John campbell!

sbiddle

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#681755 5-Sep-2012 12:54

joker97: John campbell!

And what do you say when John Cambell asks you why you parked for roughly 6 hours longer than the time stated on the ticket?

gzt

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#681760 5-Sep-2012 13:03

sbiddle:
joker97: John campbell!

And what do you say when John Cambell asks you why you parked for roughly 6 hours longer than the time stated on the ticket?

8 minutes longer isn't it?

NonprayingMantis

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#681762 5-Sep-2012 13:04

gzt:
sbiddle:
joker97: John campbell!

And what do you say when John Cambell asks you why you parked for roughly 6 hours longer than the time stated on the ticket?

8 minutes longer isn't it?

No the ticket stated he had paid for 1 1/2 hours. he parked there for around 8 hours, mistakenly beleiving he had paid for 12

gzt

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#681765 5-Sep-2012 13:08

From the parking company letter on page 1:

The $65 is not related to the 8 minutes parked overtime specifically in your situation, just that you had been issued with a Parking Breach Notice at this time.

oxnsox

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#681770 5-Sep-2012 13:16

sbiddle:
bazzer:
oxnsox: Is it really that clear?
Yes it appears thats what may have happened, but I read that the OP pushed the button get $8 displayed. Then inserted the card.
The transaction fee would only be added once you've elected your payment method, so if the OP was aware of the fee and had entered $8 then they'd have every expectation that the $8 figure printed on the ticket was the parking fee and a transaction charges would be added (or not).

What the OP should do is go back to the carpark and confirm how the system actually works, before proceeding. Maybe there is a certain ambiguity in the way the parking companies present this. They may be legally correct in notifying you of the fee and expecting you to add it. Knowing full well it's often missed and there's the odd $40-$65 in it for them. Would that surprise anyone??

But then maybe these companies figure we won't do that because it's human nature to bitch and moan and simply pay the fee rather than challenge their ambiguity

In my experience, that's not how these machines work, usually you put the card in first. But I agree with you, if it went down like you described then you could argue it. My guess however is it goes like this: Insert card, select parking (tap-tap-tap, 0.5 hour = $2.50, 1 hour = $5, 1.5 hours = $7.50, maximum time = $8), press OK, "CC has additional 50c trans fee", press OK, take ticket.

Yip - that's exactly how they work. I haven't see anywhere where the OP has indicated how long he was actually there for, but "reasonable costs" would cover charging the standard $2.50 per half hour so the "fine" isn't unreasonable.

Thanks for this clarification people.
Seems like a $40-$65 operator error

gzt

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#681775 5-Sep-2012 13:23

gzt: From the parking company letter on page 1:

The $65 is not related to the 8 minutes parked overtime specifically in your situation, just that you had been issued with a Parking Breach Notice at this time.

Ok, just seen where the OP states this is completely inaccurate. What a shockingly bad attempt at a payment demand...

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