Obliged to give up passwords and pins to NZ Customs?

Forums › Off topic › Obliged to give up passwords and pins to NZ Customs?

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103 posts

Master Geek

#1218544 20-Jan-2015 20:05

I've been travelling with partner & our very young daughters and had toothpaste, full baby bottle etc confiscated, and other ridiculous hassles. The reason for this is that "profiling" is (or at least was) frowned upon as being potentially racist, or otherwise "unfair".
For the same reason Police don't target the real dangers on our roads.
So we all suffer due to the overt focus on the myth of "inequality"
Pffftttt...

gzt

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#1218658 20-Jan-2015 22:06

freemark: Sounds like a lot of work to do when life is preferably more productive & fun. How about do this

Don't be a Terrorist

Don't be a drug smuggler

Don't be into paedophilia & kiddy porn

Don't be a subversive Watermelon

Don't get in to industrial espionage

Or just don't come to NZ...

Great. You want strip searches reserved for greenpeace members.

gzt

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#1218662 20-Jan-2015 22:12

freemark: I've been travelling with partner & our very young daughters and had toothpaste, full baby bottle etc confiscated, and other ridiculous hassles. The reason for this is that "profiling" is (or at least was) frowned upon as being potentially racist, or otherwise "unfair".
For the same reason Police don't target the real dangers on our roads.
So we all suffer due to the overt focus on the myth of "inequality"
Pffftttt...

No, because it would be stupid to confiscate toothpaste from anyone wearing a veil or national origin or other silly profiling and let you carry yours on through as if you alone only are innocent based on other silly and arbitrary profiling.

gzt

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#1218671 20-Jan-2015 22:24

freemark:
Abo: My passwords are mine/my thoughts, if someone wants them they will have to take it by force.

That being said I would probably just wipe my devices before crossing the border and let them go loose on blank devices, takes less than 30 minutes to restore once done so it's a minor inconvenience compared to giving up your rights and private information.

To a certain extent I agree..particularly around actual "thoughts" - I don't necessarily consider a password to be this. I'm also not really of the "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" mindset.

The main reason that our freedom from surveillance/easy travel etc has been compromised is the tacit support of anything & everything anti capitalism/freedom/ traditional Western values by the Political Left. Radical Islam takes great moral & practical support from this, endangering the freedom of us all. Very ironic considering the "liberals" will be the first on the chopping block, but absolutely tragic for free-thinking people. The enemy of my enemy is not always my friend, but more and more the friend of my enemy becomes my enemy as well.

If you want a conspiracy I'd suggest it is more related to the military industrial complex needing a new enemy after the cold war ended. Bush/Chaney/Rumsfeld did a very good job of getting things going again. Pretty much turned out how Bin laden wanted it and planned it. Evil morons all of them.

freemark

103 posts

Master Geek

#1218675 20-Jan-2015 22:29

Or it could be that anyone who doesn't belong to or adhere to often oppressive & murderous ideologies travelling with babies & young children is statically zero risk of violent acts? Or vandalising things like the Nasska lines...or interfering with people & companies going about their lawful business...

MikeB4

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#1218762 21-Jan-2015 06:48

freemark: Or it could be that anyone who doesn't belong to or adhere to often oppressive & murderous ideologies travelling with babies & young children is statically zero risk of violent acts? Or vandalising things like the Nasska lines...or interfering with people & companies going about their lawful business...

Ummm what?

gzt

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#1218789 21-Jan-2015 08:18

freemark: Or it could be that anyone who doesn't belong to or adhere to often oppressive & murderous ideologies travelling with babies & young children is statically zero risk of violent acts? Or vandalising things like the Nasska lines...or interfering with people & companies going about their lawful business...

Well I'd like to explain how wrong and illogical most of that is. But this is a long way from the topic and we drifted it too much already.

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freemark

103 posts

Master Geek

#1218838 21-Jan-2015 09:27

gzt:
freemark: Or it could be that anyone who doesn't belong to or adhere to often oppressive & murderous ideologies travelling with babies & young children is statically zero risk of violent acts? Or vandalising things like the Nasska lines...or interfering with people & companies going about their lawful business...

Well I'd like to explain how wrong and illogical most of that is. But this is a long way from the topic and we drifted it too much already.

Oh I don't know. The discussion is about what information we should have to give Border Authorities, with an insinuation or 2 that this woman was targeted by association with DotCom.
I've pointed out that she was legitimately profiled as being a person of interest. I've asserted that some people shouldn't be persons of interest (and gave examples). I have also argued that we would all be safer & less inconvenienced if more/better profiling was used, pointed out who are more likely to be threats, and why profiling is not used as much as it should be ("inequality" myths, PC gone mad, fear of racism labelling etc) I stand by these assertions, and am interested to know what argument you can give that I am wrong & illogical.
It's an off topic forum after all, and these are legitimate issues.

gzt

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#1218867 21-Jan-2015 09:54

I'm curious to know why this took 7 hours. Was it a really long queue? ; )

Edit: more or less replied to the logic of the profiling example in a previous post above

MikeB4

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#1218869 21-Jan-2015 09:58

gzt: I'm curious to know why this took 7 hours. Was it a really long queue? ; )

Edit: more or less replied to the logic of the profiling example in a previous post above

what is more important is when are we going to be rid of Dotcom so we can get back to the real problems like worm rot and selfies

Rikkitic

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#1218927 21-Jan-2015 11:21

freemark: I have also argued that we would all be safer & less inconvenienced if more/better profiling was used, pointed out who are more likely to be threats, and why profiling is not used as much as it should be ("inequality" myths, PC gone mad, fear of racism labelling etc) I stand by these assertions, and am interested to know what argument you can give that I am wrong & illogical.
It's an off topic forum after all, and these are legitimate issues.

I think you are falling into the kind of logic trap here that often ensnares those who argue for fixed responses to changeable situations. The simple fact is that if profiling became more effective, those trying to avoid it would become better at it. Instead of bearded men in turbans, you would have young blonds in business suits. This is already starting to happen. What is the value of profiling when any blue-eyed child can be concealing a bomb or, even better, a flash drive with bomb-making instructions and inspiring words from a charismatic leader?

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

tdgeek

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#1218977 21-Jan-2015 12:06

KiwiNZ: Until they pass customs they have not crossed the border and are not covered by NZ civil rights. NZ customs have extensive search powers you are required by request to grant access to computer and related equipement, if access is refused then entry can be refused. The US and most countries would do the same.

I would fully cooperate as I have no interest in generating greater hassles at airports etc just to be stubborn and bloody minded.

Agree. I got stopped at ChCh going to Oz with my the 5 and 7yo daughters, had to go through all suitcases, I am ok with that.
Got stopped at LAX and had camera bag empties, he checked the footage on Video Recorder, checked footage on camera, ok with that.
Got pulled over at the back of the UN building by the river, while taking photo of the UN building, Nice UN guard asked to look at my photos, ok with that.

If this was now, and I had to unlock iPhone, iPad, I am ok with that. They are only protecting possible against potential fugitives, unlawful materials.
Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.

SepticSceptic

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#1218980 21-Jan-2015 12:11

tdgeek:
KiwiNZ: Until they pass customs they have not crossed the border and are not covered by NZ civil rights. NZ customs have extensive search powers you are required by request to grant access to computer and related equipement, if access is refused then entry can be refused. The US and most countries would do the same.

I would fully cooperate as I have no interest in generating greater hassles at airports etc just to be stubborn and bloody minded.

Agree. I got stopped at ChCh going to Oz with my the 5 and 7yo daughters, had to go through all suitcases, I am ok with that.
Got stopped at LAX and had camera bag empties, he checked the footage on Video Recorder, checked footage on camera, ok with that.
Got pulled over at the back of the UN building by the river, while taking photo of the UN building, Nice UN guard asked to look at my photos, ok with that.

If this was now, and I had to unlock iPhone, iPad, I am ok with that. They are only protecting possible against potential fugitives, unlawful materials.
Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.

Reminds me of travelling thru East Berlin .. "Papers and Passports"

tdgeek

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#1218986 21-Jan-2015 12:16

SepticSceptic:
tdgeek:
KiwiNZ: Until they pass customs they have not crossed the border and are not covered by NZ civil rights. NZ customs have extensive search powers you are required by request to grant access to computer and related equipement, if access is refused then entry can be refused. The US and most countries would do the same.

I would fully cooperate as I have no interest in generating greater hassles at airports etc just to be stubborn and bloody minded.

Agree. I got stopped at ChCh going to Oz with my the 5 and 7yo daughters, had to go through all suitcases, I am ok with that.
Got stopped at LAX and had camera bag empties, he checked the footage on Video Recorder, checked footage on camera, ok with that.
Got pulled over at the back of the UN building by the river, while taking photo of the UN building, Nice UN guard asked to look at my photos, ok with that.

If this was now, and I had to unlock iPhone, iPad, I am ok with that. They are only protecting possible against potential fugitives, unlawful materials.
Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.

Reminds me of travelling thru East Berlin .. "Papers and Passports"

I was stopped at LAX another time, first time actually, and forgot GF's address, so I made one up. Maybe I was profiled, maybe I was random. But I was there all by myself in the end, but they called her eventually as she was driving to the Big Easy. Sorted. But again, I accept all this totally, they are just doing their job to protect whoever country is involved.

nunz

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#1219203 21-Jan-2015 15:19

KiwiNZ:
Item:
Gordy7:
"told to surrender passwords to her laptop and phone for curious border agents.

Why not simply remove your passwords on these devices for border agents.
Then put back your passwords after leaving customs.

Alternatively put in temporary passwords for surrender to keep the border agents happy.
Again replace with your good passwords after leaving customs.

Cheers

It is more about what is then done with the access that those passwords grant - not the knowing of the passwords themselves!

I think in future I will setup a new dummy account where possible on my devices, leave my real stuff filevault/encryption and hand over the dummy details if (however unlikely) ever asked.

These guys are not stupid and they would pick that and life for you suddenly becomes a pain in the butt. Heads they win tails you lose. Just cooperate and lifes good. Unless of course there is dodgy stuff stored

Actually a lot of those guys are that stupid ..... no offence intended to any border guards out there. In USA they are some of the lowest paid and least trained people. The stupidity seen on youtube is because there are a lot of bullies who see themselves as big men in a uniform.

I've known some customs people and they were smart cookies, but they weren't your average curious border guard. That said I would be very surprised if anybody searching bags had any knowledge or expertise at finding deniable encryption. That is a skilled operation and most of the pople on this site would have trouble picking it up.

As for breaking it - ha ha ha ha ha - not unless you have got a few hundred thousand years, a hell of a lot of CPU power and I'm dumb enough to use a half pie password and no secondary encryption / 2 factor authentication that doesn't involve me eyeball, finger print or similar.

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