Drinking on Interislander: is it time to call time?

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#1256499 11-Mar-2015 17:28

ubergeeknz: So if I get this straight, you are saying that they should create some new arbitrary rule for the Interislander to somehow determine who is driving and not serve them any alcohol?

How precisely would this be implemented?

What other laws do you think we should make rules to try and prevent people from breaking? If someone is already willing to drink and drive, do you not think they would find a way around this new rule as well?

No. I am saying that bars on a car ferry should have a higher level of responsibility than they are presently demonstrating.

They should be clearer in stating and reinforcing the message. When a person appears at the bar for their 6th glass of wine, staff might well make a polite enquiry about having a sober driver to leave the ferry and so on and so forth. They make announcements about not leaving your car alarm on etc - why not add one along the lines of "Passengers are reminded to consume alcohol on the ship in a responsible manner, especially if they are driving a vehicle."

Remember, in the premium lounges on these boats, alcohol is FREE at the point of use. This encourages excess consumption in many people...a timely reminder cannot do any harm.

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#1256832 12-Mar-2015 09:22

I have removed an unnecessary comment. Personal attacks are not tolerated here.

People often mistake me for an adult because of my age.

Keep calm, and carry on posting.

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#1256857 12-Mar-2015 09:56

IlDuce:
Geektastic: OOI what is to stop a drunk from getting a sober person to blow into the alcohol interlock device to spoof it?

Also, is any offence punished with less than 10 demerits? If not, why not just make it a total of 10 instead of 100 and 10 demerits = 1?

A sober person could do as you say, but the device also randomly while driving asks for a breath test sample otherwise it shuts the car off. I don't really know much about this alcohol interlocks thing to be honest, but I do wonder what happens if it wants a sample on middle of motorway and fails - does car just roll to a stop in the middle of the motorway?

I guess 50 demerits has my psychological impact that 5. Even if it meant the same thing.

I believe they affect ignition only.

Once car is running they work.

Based on my thorough research of having watched 40 year old virgin.

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#1256858 12-Mar-2015 09:58

Geektastic:
ubergeeknz: So if I get this straight, you are saying that they should create some new arbitrary rule for the Interislander to somehow determine who is driving and not serve them any alcohol?

How precisely would this be implemented?

What other laws do you think we should make rules to try and prevent people from breaking? If someone is already willing to drink and drive, do you not think they would find a way around this new rule as well?

No. I am saying that bars on a car ferry should have a higher level of responsibility than they are presently demonstrating.

They should be clearer in stating and reinforcing the message. When a person appears at the bar for their 6th glass of wine, staff might well make a polite enquiry about having a sober driver to leave the ferry and so on and so forth. They make announcements about not leaving your car alarm on etc - why not add one along the lines of "Passengers are reminded to consume alcohol on the ship in a responsible manner, especially if they are driving a vehicle."

Remember, in the premium lounges on these boats, alcohol is FREE at the point of use. This encourages excess consumption in many people...a timely reminder cannot do any harm.

Alcohol licensing is pretty clear - you don't serve people that are intoxicated.

If they do, they lose their license and face fines for the place serving alcohol and the person who served it.

Systems are in place to prevent this. If they aren't being followed there are existing systems for punishing the people serving the alcohol.

muppet

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#1256869 12-Mar-2015 10:16

histruh not a pprumblmeum. Lets us abrone to *hic* waht we unt.

Geektastic

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#1256873 12-Mar-2015 10:25

wasabi2k:
Geektastic:
ubergeeknz: So if I get this straight, you are saying that they should create some new arbitrary rule for the Interislander to somehow determine who is driving and not serve them any alcohol?

How precisely would this be implemented?

What other laws do you think we should make rules to try and prevent people from breaking? If someone is already willing to drink and drive, do you not think they would find a way around this new rule as well?

No. I am saying that bars on a car ferry should have a higher level of responsibility than they are presently demonstrating.

They should be clearer in stating and reinforcing the message. When a person appears at the bar for their 6th glass of wine, staff might well make a polite enquiry about having a sober driver to leave the ferry and so on and so forth. They make announcements about not leaving your car alarm on etc - why not add one along the lines of "Passengers are reminded to consume alcohol on the ship in a responsible manner, especially if they are driving a vehicle."

Remember, in the premium lounges on these boats, alcohol is FREE at the point of use. This encourages excess consumption in many people...a timely reminder cannot do any harm.

Alcohol licensing is pretty clear - you don't serve people that are intoxicated.

If they do, they lose their license and face fines for the place serving alcohol and the person who served it.

Systems are in place to prevent this. If they aren't being followed there are existing systems for punishing the people serving the alcohol.

I agree. I think the definition of intoxicated is too vague (and should be a higher standard in a situation such as this). For example, the new lower DUI limit could probably be exceeded by many people without appearing 'intoxicated', so it would not really assist in trying to ensure everyone's safety by discouraging vehicle drivers on the ferry to keep alcohol intake to a minimum.

There are all manner of initiatives they could trial - for example, offering drivers a disposable breathalyser.

The law has minimum requirements but I see no harm (and possibly much good) in operators such as this stepping up and voluntarily imposing a higher standard upon themselves as part of general Corporate Responsibility processes.

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#1257239 12-Mar-2015 14:47

I can maybe offer some insights into this. I worked on the Lynx, Arahura and Aratere some years ago. I spent a lot of that time working in the bar on all three vessels, however I can only say what I saw while I was there, not necessarily what happens these days.

Ship staff did take steps to monitor how many drinks were being served, and to whom, in accordance with the liquor licensing laws and host responsibility principles, however there is no reliable way for onboard service staff to know who got out of the drivers seat of any car, as no onboard service staff are posted on the vehicle deck during loading or unloading.

Secondly, being 'intoxicated' and being over the new drink drive limit are not the same thing in legal terms.

The Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act 2012 defines 'intoxicated' as being when a person is observably affected by alcohol or other substances to such a degree that two or more of the following are evident:

Speech is impaired. Indicators are slurring, difficulty forming words, being loud or repetitive, losing train of thought, being nonsensical or unintelligible.
Coordination is impaired. Indicators are spilling drinks, tripping, weaving, walking into objects, being unable to stand unaided or sit straight.
Appearance is affected. Indicators are bloodshot eyes, eyes glazed, inability to focus, appearing tired, asleep, or dishevelled.
Behaviour is impaired. Indicators are seriously inappropriate actions or language, being aggressive, rude, belligerent, or obnoxious.

Unfortunately, on a rough crossing everybody onboard can be observed spilling drinks, tripping, weaving, walking into objects etc etc (Sorry, I just couldn't resist that)

A person who has consumed 4 beers over 3 hours will in many cases display none of the above symptoms, but could nonetheless be over the legal BAC limit. The onus must therefore be on the individual to monitor and limit their own alcohol intake if they know they will be driving and they wish to remain under the limit. Bar staff can only enforce the law regarding intoxication based on what they are able to observe. That is the letter of the law.

The interislander's general terms of carriage (clause 14.2) state that all vehicles MUST be driven on and off the ship by the accompanying passenger, except in the case of an emergency, in which case a charge for removal may be levied. This would be done to (a) protect the Property of the Interislander or any other Person (including the Passenger); or (b) ensure the efficient loading or unloading of the Ship.
I personally only ever saw this done once, when a passenger cardiac arrested while onboard.

At the end of the day, each of us is responsible for monitoring our own alcohol intake before getting behind the wheel. If it was the bars' responsibility all the adverts on TV would only be aimed at bar owners and their staff wouldn't they?

Armed robbery is against the law, but I am pretty sure the staff at gun ranges aren't compelled to ask all their customers if they will rob a dairy on their way home from the range. But the point is they could rob a dairy if they chose to...... Is the gun range responsible? They supplied the ammo after all......

To be absolutely clear, the above is my own opinion only and does not in any way reflect the opinion of Interislander/Kiwirail, whom I have no association with.

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#1257269 12-Mar-2015 15:38

Wheelbarrow01: I can maybe offer some insights into this. I worked on the Lynx, Arahura and Aratere some years ago. I spent a lot of that time working in the bar on all three vessels, however I can only say what I saw while I was there, not necessarily what happens these days.

Ship staff did take steps to monitor how many drinks were being served, and to whom, in accordance with the liquor licensing laws and host responsibility principles, however there is no reliable way for onboard service staff to know who got out of the drivers seat of any car, as no onboard service staff are posted on the vehicle deck during loading or unloading.

Secondly, being 'intoxicated' and being over the new drink drive limit are not the same thing in legal terms.

The Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act 2012 defines 'intoxicated' as being when a person is observably affected by alcohol or other substances to such a degree that two or more of the following are evident:

Speech is impaired. Indicators are slurring, difficulty forming words, being loud or repetitive, losing train of thought, being nonsensical or unintelligible.
Coordination is impaired. Indicators are spilling drinks, tripping, weaving, walking into objects, being unable to stand unaided or sit straight.
Appearance is affected. Indicators are bloodshot eyes, eyes glazed, inability to focus, appearing tired, asleep, or dishevelled.
Behaviour is impaired. Indicators are seriously inappropriate actions or language, being aggressive, rude, belligerent, or obnoxious.
Unfortunately, on a rough crossing everybody onboard can be observed spilling drinks, tripping, weaving, walking into objects etc etc (Sorry, I just couldn't resist that)

A person who has consumed 4 beers over 3 hours will in many cases display none of the above symptoms, but could nonetheless be over the legal BAC limit. The onus must therefore be on the individual to monitor and limit their own alcohol intake if they know they will be driving and they wish to remain under the limit. Bar staff can only enforce the law regarding intoxication based on what they are able to observe. That is the letter of the law.

The interislander's general terms of carriage (clause 14.2) state that all vehicles MUST be driven on and off the ship by the accompanying passenger, except in the case of an emergency, in which case a charge for removal may be levied. This would be done to (a) protect the Property of the Interislander or any other Person (including the Passenger); or (b) ensure the efficient loading or unloading of the Ship.
I personally only ever saw this done once, when a passenger cardiac arrested while onboard.

At the end of the day, each of us is responsible for monitoring our own alcohol intake before getting behind the wheel. If it was the bars' responsibility all the adverts on TV would only be aimed at bar owners and their staff wouldn't they?

Armed robbery is against the law, but I am pretty sure the staff at gun ranges aren't compelled to ask all their customers if they will rob a dairy on their way home from the range. But the point is they could rob a dairy if they chose to...... Is the gun range responsible? They supplied the ammo after all......

To be absolutely clear, the above is my own opinion only and does not in any way reflect the opinion of Interislander/Kiwirail, whom I have no association with.

With regard to gun ranges, I have witnessed club officials contact police when they were concerned about the behaviour of a member - who lost all his firearms into police custody by the end of that day until he could satisfy them as to his state of mind. The club would consider they had a responsibility to report any concern they had about a member. To extrapolate that to the ferry, it would suggest that staff ought to report the registration of any vehicle they consider the driver of to be DUI.

Anyway I don't really think that the company should police it per se - merely that they should make a more obvious point of reminding drivers of the law etc given the unique circumstances - and the fact that some bars on the ships serve alcohol for free once you are in the lounge.

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#1257284 12-Mar-2015 16:00

Geektastic:
ubergeeknz: So if I get this straight, you are saying that they should create some new arbitrary rule for the Interislander to somehow determine who is driving and not serve them any alcohol?

How precisely would this be implemented?

What other laws do you think we should make rules to try and prevent people from breaking? If someone is already willing to drink and drive, do you not think they would find a way around this new rule as well?

No. I am saying that bars on a car ferry should have a higher level of responsibility than they are presently demonstrating.

They should be clearer in stating and reinforcing the message. When a person appears at the bar for their 6th glass of wine, staff might well make a polite enquiry about having a sober driver to leave the ferry and so on and so forth. They make announcements about not leaving your car alarm on etc - why not add one along the lines of "Passengers are reminded to consume alcohol on the ship in a responsible manner, especially if they are driving a vehicle."

Remember, in the premium lounges on these boats, alcohol is FREE at the point of use. This encourages excess consumption in many people...a timely reminder cannot do any harm.

I disagree with this although your idea falls well in line with nowadays very common "it is somebody else's fault" syndrome.
People must take responsibility for their actions.

Just have a campaign for couple of months where cops test most of the drivers when they come out of the ferry.
This worked very well on huge ferries going between Sweden and Finland. Monsters with 5 decks of pubs, bars, restaurants, night clubs and tax-free shops and 2500 passengers.
It was pretty bad on night route leaving at 8pm from Finland and arriving at 6am to Stockholm until cops started to test drivers every week. After word got around the number of drivers over the limit dropped radically.

Satch

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#1257323 12-Mar-2015 17:03

Geektastic:
Satch:
Geektastic: As I write this, I am sat in the Kaitaki Plus lounge, observing the drinking habits of those around me. I know a number of the people drinking are driving because I saw them in the queues waiting to board.

One couple, for example, has consumed 4 glasses of wine and 4 beers so far. It's free in the lounge too.

Now, I know you could argue that it's like a pub. Except it isn't. Here, no one is getting a taxi home if they drove a vehicle onto the ship.

Seems to me time drivers were not served alcohol on board. There's not even a mention of drink driving etc.

The simple answer is NO. I do not drink and drive, and I do not want to have such limitations imposed on me based on your (possibly questionable) observations. I suggest you use your spare time on something more constructive. If this was an issue (remembering that drinking and driving is a major focus of the police) then I am sure they would have done something about it now (as pointed out by other contributors to this thread).

If you don't drink and drive, how would such limitations as "time drivers were not served alcohol on board" affect you?

Because I wouldn't want a bartender mothering me by asking if I am driving every time I order a drink.

Wheelbarrow01

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#1257602 13-Mar-2015 08:05

I'm pretty sure the Police have carried out breath testing as cars come off the ferry from time to time. I remember when there was a Ferarri club travelling one time, the Police were waiting for them on the other side and they checked over the cars and the drivers very thoroughly.

Unfortunately the onboard service crew's main concern when docking is to clean the ship from top to bottom within 15-30 minutes before the next passengers get onboard, so their focus is certainly not on monitoring who is driving off. It's one of those things unfortunately.

On quieter sailings it is possible to pick up on dodgy behaviour..... I remember working on an overnight freight sailing and there were only about 10 or so passengers onboard. A couple of guys were hanging around the kids play area with their sleeping bags which I thought was odd as they didn't have kids with them. When the ship got into Picton I was cleaning in that area and noticed the flat panel tv was gone from its wall bracket. I went to the manager's office and checked the CCTV - it showed these two jokers trying to casually walk down the stairs to the vehicle deck with the TV stuffed inside a bulging and unusually heavy looking sleeping bag. It took all of about 5 minutes to confirm their identities on the ship's manifest and they didn't even make it out of Picton before they were pulled over and arrested by the Police.

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wasabi2k

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#1257637 13-Mar-2015 09:07

Wheelbarrow01: I can maybe offer some insights into this. I worked on the Lynx, Arahura and Aratere some years ago. I spent a lot of that time working in the bar on all three vessels, however I can only say what I saw while I was there, not necessarily what happens these days.

Ship staff did take steps to monitor how many drinks were being served, and to whom, in accordance with the liquor licensing laws and host responsibility principles, however there is no reliable way for onboard service staff to know who got out of the drivers seat of any car, as no onboard service staff are posted on the vehicle deck during loading or unloading.

Secondly, being 'intoxicated' and being over the new drink drive limit are not the same thing in legal terms.

The Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act 2012 defines 'intoxicated' as being when a person is observably affected by alcohol or other substances to such a degree that two or more of the following are evident:

Speech is impaired. Indicators are slurring, difficulty forming words, being loud or repetitive, losing train of thought, being nonsensical or unintelligible.
Coordination is impaired. Indicators are spilling drinks, tripping, weaving, walking into objects, being unable to stand unaided or sit straight.
Appearance is affected. Indicators are bloodshot eyes, eyes glazed, inability to focus, appearing tired, asleep, or dishevelled.
Behaviour is impaired. Indicators are seriously inappropriate actions or language, being aggressive, rude, belligerent, or obnoxious.
Unfortunately, on a rough crossing everybody onboard can be observed spilling drinks, tripping, weaving, walking into objects etc etc (Sorry, I just couldn't resist that)

A person who has consumed 4 beers over 3 hours will in many cases display none of the above symptoms, but could nonetheless be over the legal BAC limit. The onus must therefore be on the individual to monitor and limit their own alcohol intake if they know they will be driving and they wish to remain under the limit. Bar staff can only enforce the law regarding intoxication based on what they are able to observe. That is the letter of the law.

The interislander's general terms of carriage (clause 14.2) state that all vehicles MUST be driven on and off the ship by the accompanying passenger, except in the case of an emergency, in which case a charge for removal may be levied. This would be done to (a) protect the Property of the Interislander or any other Person (including the Passenger); or (b) ensure the efficient loading or unloading of the Ship.
I personally only ever saw this done once, when a passenger cardiac arrested while onboard.

At the end of the day, each of us is responsible for monitoring our own alcohol intake before getting behind the wheel. If it was the bars' responsibility all the adverts on TV would only be aimed at bar owners and their staff wouldn't they?

To be absolutely clear, the above is my own opinion only and does not in any way reflect the opinion of Interislander/Kiwirail, whom I have no association with.

Thanks very much for some insight from the other side of things.

Geektastic

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#1257731 13-Mar-2015 10:42

MagicSquirrel:
Geektastic:
ubergeeknz: So if I get this straight, you are saying that they should create some new arbitrary rule for the Interislander to somehow determine who is driving and not serve them any alcohol?

How precisely would this be implemented?

What other laws do you think we should make rules to try and prevent people from breaking? If someone is already willing to drink and drive, do you not think they would find a way around this new rule as well?

No. I am saying that bars on a car ferry should have a higher level of responsibility than they are presently demonstrating.

They should be clearer in stating and reinforcing the message. When a person appears at the bar for their 6th glass of wine, staff might well make a polite enquiry about having a sober driver to leave the ferry and so on and so forth. They make announcements about not leaving your car alarm on etc - why not add one along the lines of "Passengers are reminded to consume alcohol on the ship in a responsible manner, especially if they are driving a vehicle."

Remember, in the premium lounges on these boats, alcohol is FREE at the point of use. This encourages excess consumption in many people...a timely reminder cannot do any harm.

I disagree with this although your idea falls well in line with nowadays very common "it is somebody else's fault" syndrome.
People must take responsibility for their actions.

Just have a campaign for couple of months where cops test most of the drivers when they come out of the ferry.
This worked very well on huge ferries going between Sweden and Finland. Monsters with 5 decks of pubs, bars, restaurants, night clubs and tax-free shops and 2500 passengers.
It was pretty bad on night route leaving at 8pm from Finland and arriving at 6am to Stockholm until cops started to test drivers every week. After word got around the number of drivers over the limit dropped radically.

good idea.

Geektastic

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#1257732 13-Mar-2015 10:44

Wheelbarrow01: I'm pretty sure the Police have carried out breath testing as cars come off the ferry from time to time. I remember when there was a Ferarri club travelling one time, the Police were waiting for them on the other side and they checked over the cars and the drivers very thoroughly.

Unfortunately the onboard service crew's main concern when docking is to clean the ship from top to bottom within 15-30 minutes before the next passengers get onboard, so their focus is certainly not on monitoring who is driving off. It's one of those things unfortunately.

On quieter sailings it is possible to pick up on dodgy behaviour..... I remember working on an overnight freight sailing and there were only about 10 or so passengers onboard. A couple of guys were hanging around the kids play area with their sleeping bags which I thought was odd as they didn't have kids with them. When the ship got into Picton I was cleaning in that area and noticed the flat panel tv was gone from its wall bracket. I went to the manager's office and checked the CCTV - it showed these two jokers trying to casually walk down the stairs to the vehicle deck with the TV stuffed inside a bulging and unusually heavy looking sleeping bag. It took all of about 5 minutes to confirm their identities on the ship's manifest and they didn't even make it out of Picton before they were pulled over and arrested by the Police.

Criminals are notoriously stupid...!

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#1257734 13-Mar-2015 10:44

Satch:
Geektastic:
Satch:
Geektastic: As I write this, I am sat in the Kaitaki Plus lounge, observing the drinking habits of those around me. I know a number of the people drinking are driving because I saw them in the queues waiting to board.

One couple, for example, has consumed 4 glasses of wine and 4 beers so far. It's free in the lounge too.

Now, I know you could argue that it's like a pub. Except it isn't. Here, no one is getting a taxi home if they drove a vehicle onto the ship.

Seems to me time drivers were not served alcohol on board. There's not even a mention of drink driving etc.

The simple answer is NO. I do not drink and drive, and I do not want to have such limitations imposed on me based on your (possibly questionable) observations. I suggest you use your spare time on something more constructive. If this was an issue (remembering that drinking and driving is a major focus of the police) then I am sure they would have done something about it now (as pointed out by other contributors to this thread).

If you don't drink and drive, how would such limitations as "time drivers were not served alcohol on board" affect you?

Because I wouldn't want a bartender mothering me by asking if I am driving every time I order a drink.

I would, if it stopped you killing yourself or someone else....

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