Are we getting a tad precious?

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sidefx

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#2182027 18-Feb-2019 15:08

jarledb:

Me thinks there are some Kiwis that would be offended if they were labeled "Europeans" on the docket.

Really not a good idea to label the dockets with what people look like. Taken to the next logical step it would be "balding man by the window", etc.

Ergh, I've only skimmed through the thread because this is one of those divisive issues that both sides of the debate seem to be turning into a major storm in a teacup. But yeah this was sorta the point I was going to make too...

I was just going to add that:

1) I rarely hear people referring to other people as "Asians" in a positive way. When was the last time you heard someone start a sentence with something like "Look at all those Asians... " or "I was in a shop surrounded by Asians..." (This is literally a quote from an audience member in a comedy show I went to the other day...) or "I passed this Asian driver on the motorway..." and it wasn't followed by some form of casual racism?

2) The whole "If they were from Asia then what's the problem because it's an accurate label" argument seems majorly flawed. By that logic calling a table the obese or fat table should be fine, provided the occupants really are obese?

3) I think it's fairly easy when you don't encounter discrimination on a daily basis to say "Aw well you can call me fatty or whitey or baldy or X and I won't be offended!" Part of being a decent person IMO is not just thinking about what would offend you personally, but also what might offend others and why they might be offended by it. Then at least try not to do things that will cause offense to others... and if you do apologise for it and move on.

Just my 2c. I won't post again as I recognise this is a grey area for a lot of people and TBH I doubt anyone is going to change anyone else's mind by posting on a geek forum, but just wanted to get that off my chest ;)

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Aredwood

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#2182067 18-Feb-2019 16:01

Maybe the cafe was worried about causing more offence. As people will often get offended if you incorrectly guess what race they are. Which can often be explosive due to past wars or other major events in the history of their home country.

Call a Chinese person, Japanese.

Samoan person, Tongan.

Sri Lankan person, Indian.

And probably far more combinations that I dont know about. And you will almost certainly annoy that person. So maybe the intent of using the term Asian. Was simply an attempt to avoid making such an incorrect guess.

PS, I'm a mixture of 5 different races myself, So I often get asked the where are you from Question alot.

Tzoi

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#2183320 18-Feb-2019 22:50

There's been some good discussion over the past page or so from people who have better articulated my thoughts than me :)

Coil:

Not everyone goes around with malice name calling people... If someone asks where are you from, it is mostly out of curiosity. I am 1/2 English, 1/4 German and 1/4 Norwegian and as a bland white kiwi, I get asked where am I from quite frequently. I have also asked some of my Asian friends "Where are you really from"? To have great stories told of home and a lot of other things. These guys have pride in where they came from or at least their heritage or culture if they don't know their own roots. I've asked my mates who are Kiwi Asians what they think about NZ and they say it is great, don't have any issues at all and never feel like they are being discriminated against or ridiculed. Not sure where you are in NZ or what your story is but it seems you should have a brighter outlook on humanity :), I'd suggest if you ever plan on moving forward, I'd stop relating everything to past stigmas.

Just wanted to quickly pick up on this point, I guess to me it's more in how they ask the question - the "really" part in particular is what grates me and which I have encountered quite a few times. If someone were to ask me where I was from and I said Auckland, and they followed up with a more considered and thoughtful question such as "how long ago did your ancestors move here" then that is fine and sparks good conversation.

Geektastic

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#2183476 19-Feb-2019 10:25

I bet the cafe just wishes that they had a system of handing customers numbers for their orders...!

Batman

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#2194626 9-Mar-2019 17:05

Rikkitic:

Now there are suggestions that we shouldn't listen to the music of artists who have committed sexual crimes. Or maybe even just dated underage girls. Or underage boys.

I think this kind of thing is utter precious BS nonsense. Sexual assault or exploitation of young people can never be excused and it is right to hold anyone who commits such acts to account. But it is the acts that should be punished. This has nothing to do with artistic creations, unless such works are advocating or celebrating inappropriate behaviour in some way.

Human beings are not two-dimensional creatures. People are driven by complex and often contradictory impulses. Should we not eat food that has been prepared by an unvetted chef? Not buy products from an unknown salesperson? How do you tell what someone's personal life is like? Maybe all the films that Harvey Weinstein helped produce should also be banned. There go Pulp Fiction, Heavenly Creatures, Shakespeare in Love, and many, many others. What about the literature of Vladimir Nabokov? After all, he wrote Lolita! Chuck it on the bonfire!

This is the stupidest over-the-top retarded pc dumbbell crap I have ever heard of. My use of 'retarded' is intentional and I wish Geekzone allowed me to use much stronger language. People with ideas this dumb should not be allowed to go out unsupervised. The tragedy is that others lacking critical faculties will get sucked in by this idiocy, which can easily spiral out of control. It should go without saying that supporting the work of any artist has nothing whatsoever to do with supporting the bad behaviour of such a person. It should go without saying, but in the face of so much stupid, I feel I have to say it anyway.

Then why are you against Donald Trump?

Anyway I saw a news article where MJ's sister, La Toya, confirms his crimes back in 1993.

Rikkitic

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#2194644 9-Mar-2019 17:50

Batman:

Then why are you against Donald Trump?

Anyway I saw a news article where MJ's sister, La Toya, confirms his crimes back in 1993.

I don't understand the point of your question. I also don't know what La Toya has to do with it. Nor do I know why that makes any difference.

I don't know if MJ is a pedo or not. He probably is, considering the history of his behaviour and the current accusations, but it has not been irrefutably established in a court of law and he is not here to defend himself. Victims of sexual abuse, especially children, deserve to be taken seriously, but someone accused of such a crime should also be entitled to a defense. So far, Michael Jackson has only been found guilty in the court of public opinion, which at the moment sounds more like a lynch mob. Even The Simpsons have pulled his episode.

La Toya is notorious for saying anything to get attention. I wouldn't put a lot of credibility on her testimony, which she seems to have withdrawn anyway. Not that it has anything to do with MJ's music. There also seem to have been some doubts raised about the accounts of the two accusers. We have to tread carefully here, because they should not be revictimised for having the courage to tell the truth, but it also has to be acknowledged that they first said he didn't, then they said he did. I also wonder where all the other accusers are. If Jackson really did abuse so many young boys at the time, I am surprised more have not now emerged to tell their stories.

But that is not what this is about. People who do bad things can also do good things and the things should be judged on their own merit, not on the character of their creator. It is stupid, hypocritical, dishonest, and plain silly to confuse the two. Anyone who seriously believes in this kind of nonsense better never drive a Ford, because old Henry wasn't the most enlightened of individuals when it came to people of the Jewish faith. Even Walt Disney had some disturbing ideas. As soon as you start saying this or that can't be enjoyed because the person who produced it did something unacceptable, you are headed down a very dark rabbit hole.

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